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too much complaining

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KI4MVP

formerly LJ4MVP
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I have noticed that there is way too much complaining about the Cavs by Cavs fans these days. I've seen it on the various cavs boards, I've heard it on sports talk radio, I've heard it on cavs post game call in shows. I turned on the radio for the drive home after we beat the Miami Heat and wondered just how long it would be until somebody called to complain about something. The very first two callers were people calling to complain. And people complain about everything. Sometimes I wonder if the people complaining even watch the games or listen to what the coach is saying about the team.

The team is in good shape right now and things are developing nicely. Are we where we want to be? Of course not. It is impossible for us to be where we want to be already with the number of changes we made. It's going to take hard work for the full 82 game season to maybe get to where we want to be in time for the playoffs. And that might not be enough time. Does that mean something is wrong? No - that simply means that we had a long ways to go from 42 win team that missed the playoffs to legitimate championship contender. And what I see is that we are clearly going about it the right way.

This team is loaded with weapons. We could take a shortcut and get more early wins by focusing on offense. The result would be last year's suns. Lots of points, lots of wins, bounced out of the playoffs. What did the suns do? They revamped their team because you don't win in the playoffs with offense, you win in the playoffs with defense. Mike Brown understands this and is saying and doing all of the right things. The defense was awful early in the season. He resisted the urge to use gimmicks to mask the problems. He wants the problems out front and center so they can be corrected. Doing anything else would lull the team into thinking things were fine until it was too late to fix them.

The focus is defense, how are we doing? Break the season into 20 game game chunks. Our defense was awful the first 20 games, one of the worst in the league, yet we still managed a winning record of 11-9. Seven games into the next 20 games and we are 6-1. How are we doing it? Improved defense is how. On the season we are giving up 97.2 ppg on 46.4% shooting, 38.6% from the 3. Our last 7 games, those we have given up 93.2 ppg on 45.0% shooting, 34.8% from the 3. Significant improvements across the board. During this stretch, we are holding our opponents 1.6 points below their season averages.

Some will point to our earlier 8 game winning streak. That streak was fueled by the offense, not the defense, which is why we collapsed afterwards when our offense faltered a bit.

As for the complaining, it seems people complain about everything

People complain about LeBron taking too many jumpers. The reality is he is taking it to the hoop more than he ever has and he has a good chance to be the first player since Michael Jordan since Michael Jordan in 91-92 to average over 30ppg while shooting .500+ from the floor.

People complain about Drew Gooden. The reality is that he's doing exactly what the coach asked him to do - forget offense and concentrate on defense and rebounding. And he's doing it while battling a sore ankle most of the year.

People complain about Z. This one I just dont' get. An all star selection last year, a likely all star selection this year. What more do people want? I believe some of the callers after the heat game were complainging about Z. On a night he held Shaq to 10 points.

People complain about Hughes and overlook that he's doing the role he's supposed to do - carry some of LeBron's load to allow LeBron to be more effective, especially late in games. They also overlook he's been playing through both a finger injury and an Achilles issue.

People complain about Snow. The reality is he's not supposed to shot much, other guys are supposed to run the offense. His job is to take care of the ball (3rd in the league in assist/turnover), play defense, and hit the open shot when he takes it (.500 shooting).

People complain about Donyell Marshall. The reality is that while his shot has been off a bit, he's doing other things to contribute - such as leading the league in rebounds by bench player and doing enough that he often gets brought up in sixth man of the year discussions.

People complain about Damon Jones. The reality is he's doing exactly what he was brought in to do - spread the floor, drain the 3s and take care of the basketball. He's first in the league in 3 pointers per 48 minutes. He's on pace to make 176 three pointers. Last year, LeBron's entire supporting cast combined for just 188. Also, people think Damon is causing off court troubles. All you have to do is watch a game and you can see that isn't true. He gets along great with the other players.

One thing people are critical of is that Z/Drew/Hughes/Marshall/Jones are all scoring fewer points this year. It was never expected that they would. That's not why we put all of these guys together. To have them all hit last year's average, we'd have to average 14.5 more ppg than we do now and currently we are the 3rd best scoring team in the league, averaging just 1 ppg behind the #1 team. It was never the plan to have all of these guys hit their averages from last season. The plan is to instead have enough weapons that the floor stays spread, making it easier for LeBron. The result, LeBron is averaging 3.2 more ppg on the same number of shots. He's not shooting more, he's making more.

That's a nice core 7. Ira makes 8, Varejao will make 9. Those 9 can compete with any team in the league when given time to fully learn the system and to all get comfortable with each other.

The team doesn't need more changes. It needs stability and time to gel. The elite teams in the league have had stability in personnel and the players have had time to learn to play together. THe teams below them try to revamp each year. That's what I question about the Heat's offseason moves. They made too many changes to a team that was already on the verge of the finals. They didn't need the drastic changes, they just needed a little tweaking.
 
That's too long to read, but I agree with the post title. lol...and for a sec I thought LePip was the one that posted it and that would hav ebeen great irony.

But at the same time, Im not going to not mention their mistakes, esp after last years land slide collapse.
 
While there has been a lot of complaining, there are some legit gripes out there to be had. I am for one, generally happy with the way things are going but...

Damon Jones - Yeah, hes hitting 3s, probably the best 3 point shooter on the team. Hes event taking them while open or within the flow of the offense most of the time. If his off the court stuff doesn't bother anyone on the team, then it doesnt bother me. What does bother me is that hes a huge liability on defense, but he is improving here. I would like to see him add another wrinkle to his offensive game though, do something besides shoot 3's, Marshall has done it and its helped him.

Lebron - you can't really complain here much. I'd want to see better D, which would probably come with less minutes, which is up to Brown really. Theres some valid complaints about shot selection, he could be shooting an even better percentage than he is, but hes doing better than almost anyone in the league offensively

Larry Hughes - Hes doing pretty well on D, just he can't seem to finish around the basket. I dont know, maybe hes just not getting calls that Lebron gets. His outside shot is better than it was, but his FG% isnt where it was last year despite a dramatically improved 3PT%.
 
This may not relate to basketball directly but I feel it bears a connection indirectly. I like visiting urban sites every now and then that deal with urban planning, projects/construction and local politics. After doing this for a certain amount of years, I've gotten the idea that cities like Cleveland have a slight cynical nature about a lot of things. On the surface, it looks bad because you have everybody complaining and it can be quick to turn you off. But as time goes by, it's just how some people show they care. In light of that, I'd rather see people complain and actually be redblooded about things every now and again, than to remain relatively poker-faced through the greatest highs and greatest lows. The only time I have problems with complaining is when the arguments get very personal against the players or fellow members on the board. When that happens and shows no signs of slowing down, then even I have to take a step back. It usually doesn't go that far but once in a while, it certaintly does.
 
great job man i agree on all of it.. im a big damon jones fan so it was nice to read the truth ad also on Z, hes my fav cavs player even over lebron cuz he gets the job down '' not saying lebron dont'' and Z also plays good def. he has a shit load of blocks in the past week or so.and dungong first off how can jones off the court brother u U ARE NOT ON THE TEAM so i have no idea what your talking about... how bout this, we all try to support are team for a change, i nothat might take away time of cutting your own team own but lets try supporting them for once and see what happens...
 
I have my reasons for concern with this team...

#1 I seen a similar story last season... A team that can win at home, but not on the road, and had a solid record in January... Our record seems to be from a result of having 4 or 5 more home then road games this season.. They've yet to win one Road game this year against a great team... In every road game (other then the Raptors :rolleyes:) they've been down between 10-20 points in each game.

#2 A team that still has that soft interior defense...Teams score at will against us... They have no problem scoring in the paint.. We let teams go on 12-0, 15-0, 14-2 type runs almost on a nightly basis.

#3 They are one of (if not the worst) team in the nba of guarding the 3 point line...No signs of improvment.

#4 LeBron's defense (year 3, and is nowhere near an ALL NBA 15TH TEAM) :thumbdown

#5 LeBron's poor shot selection in critcal times during games (heat checks :thumbdown )

#6 Drew Gooden. Soft, no D, inconsistent.. Show him the exit.

#7 No point guard that can push the ball. (Or a PG that has a scorers bone in his body)

#8 No backup point guard. Since our backup is a SG trapped in a PG's body

#9 No backup center

#10 No leader.

If we can have at least 3 or 4 of those corrected by time this thing is over this season, mainly defensively and adding a little depth, we will be okay...

But there is nothing wrong with pointing out your teams flaws...If you listen to the players, they make out like all is well... But hell, they did that last season when we were sinking like the Titanic too... So take it for what it's worth..
 
Fans everywhere always complain about their teams. Also sports talk radio in Cleveland is terrible and to be honest Cleveland really isn't a big time basketball town. There really isn't a local media figure on radio or tv that has tons of basketball knowledge. You also get a lot of idiots calling into talk radio.

The Cavs are an improving team. Fans, including myself, do get impatient. The Cavs also are far from a perfect team. There are some problems that need to be improved. The defense is still inconsistent and certain players effort at that end need to be picked up greatly.
The Cavs also need a major upgrade at PG if they want to become a serious contender.

The Cavs are taking steps forward but still have a ways to go to contend for a title which shouldn't be expected for a few more seasons.
 
i think Cleveland fans just complain by nature because they grow up thinking their teams will let them down.
 
NarlCavs said:
Fans everywhere always complain about their teams. Also sports talk radio in Cleveland is terrible and to be honest Cleveland really isn't a big time basketball town. There really isn't a local media figure on radio or tv that has tons of basketball knowledge. You also get a lot of idiots calling into talk radio.

The Cavs are an improving team. Fans, including myself, do get impatient. The Cavs also are far from a perfect team. There are some problems that need to be improved. The defense is still inconsistent and certain players effort at that end need to be picked up greatly.
The Cavs also need a major upgrade at PG if they want to become a serious contender.

The Cavs are taking steps forward but still have a ways to go to contend for a title which shouldn't be expected for a few more seasons.

No, they don't. Why do we need a better PG? We don't need more points from our PG - we have plenty of scorers. We don't need more assists from our PG - we have LeBron and Hughes to initiate the offense. Snow's defense just shut down the leading MVP candidate. This team is put together very well right now. Extremely well actually - very, very close to the first bulls 3peat. What this team needs is time.

And look at my post again - our defense has gotten much better lately. Today only continues that trend. Our 8 game averages are

92.1 ppg allowed on .439 shooting, .326 from 3. Those are the numbers of a top 10 defense. We've gone from the absolute worst at defending the 3 point shot in the first 20 games to one of the absolute best in the league the past 8 games.
 
I don't think you can compare last year to this. We tanked during the ownership change and the coaching change, and remember we stood still when other teams were making strong moves to get to post season (we got Jiri Welsch and NJ got Vince Carter and Philly got Webber) We need to consider that the competition can still make strong moves in January.

Not all criticism is complaint. I think we all look at ways to improve the team, like all fans everywhere. And yes this team can be improved, but it is pretty good.

It is valid to be concerned about road performance. Cleveland has the best overall record of any losing road team. We will need to take it up a notch in the second half to get to the second round.

Still things are better with the current Cavs than they have been with any cleveland team in a while. Lets see how we do when AV returns.
 
hey LePIP, since you don't want to count the win over Philly, we'll get that quality road win you want on wednesday.
 
LJ4MVP said:
hey LePIP, since you don't want to count the win over Philly, we'll get that quality road win you want on wednesday.
Works for me.. :thumbup:

I would also like to add... Yesterday, defensively, they looked like a team that could win a championship...

If they could bring that defensive intensity on the road that they brought yesterday, the team could indeed be a team that could do some damage come April and May...

As far as a win Wednesday.... Lets take baby steps first, how about not getting down between 10-20 in this one ? Take it to them like they would at home...

Since they don't have Ford, maybe DJ will want to play in this one.. :chuckles:
 
The only gripes from me are about things that can change. My personal No. 1 is Damon Jones. I dont want any player LeBron down to Wilks to come off kicking and screaming disrespting the coach. Jones is the only player in this catergory as it stands now, but this stuff can spread. I have my problems with Drew and his defense but am resigned to the fact he will never rotate or play help defense with any regularity. I will take LeBron bad shot selection as long as he learns from it. Those bad shots are not as frequent. Hughes and Marshall are playing their roles, just lacking some touch, but the fundamentals are there. Ilgauskas and Snow has warmed into the season and have stepped up. Hopefully the match fitness with Newble and the return of Varejao gives us another boost. This brings me to our leading problem. Intensity on the road. We dont bring it and the record speaks for itself. Actually it flatters us. We lift it here and we become respectable on the road and become a player in April.
 
Karma said:
This brings me to our leading problem. Intensity on the road. We dont bring it and the record speaks for itself. Actually it flatters us. We lift it here and we become respectable on the road and become a player in April.
LJ4MVP,

See, it's just not myself who express that same exact concern with this team...Karma just said the exact same thing I said word for word...Alot of us are seeing the same thing with this team..

We are improving, but we need to take on some of these challenges right now... It's time for this team to step up and prove they are legit (if they are).. All the good teams need to take on some of these challenges before they can become a great team, the great teams need to attack tougher challenges to become elite teams, (like the Pistons winning games 6 and 7 on the road ect...)

We are getting better, but the training wheels need to come off...
 

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