Tristan Thompson

[koala bear]

I think that the main problem with TT isn't that he cant shoot from mid range its that he wont shoot it. The more he shoots it the better his shot will become and will make defenders pay him more attention and not sag off so much.

Throwing Bennett into the starting lineup without earning his spot would send a bad message to the rest of the team even if it doesn't upset TT.

 

[gourimoko]

ill come back when people realize that genuine stretch 4's are a dinosaur and team will need to figur eout other ways to make spacing

Torn, just make your argument.. Are you saying Tristan has a midrange game comparable to the top 3 stretch 4's in the league, or are you just saying "hey, I have a statistical anomaly here..?"

Just tossing out random stats as trivia doesn't really make a point one way or the other. And I don't think anyone would think that Tristan has an upper echelon midrange jumper for his position.

Honestly, it comes off as though you are trolling the thread...

 

[stick]

While Thompson is currently making a good percentage from mid-range, I don't see how one can call him into the upper echelon of stretch 4s, much less top three.

There's a few problems with that logic. He usually only shoots the mid-range jumper when WIDE OPEN, and most of the time, he doesn't take the shot even when open.
Speaking of which he only takes jumpers a quarter of the time.

0.5/1.2 : 44.4% - Catch and Shoot [2 seconds or less, no dribbles, outside 10 feet]
0.6/1.2 : 47.2% - Pull Up Shot [Took one or more dribbles outside 10 feet]

That accounts for 2.4 out of his 10 field goal attempts per game or 24 percent of his shot attempts.
Now what would happen if the sample size increased as he took more? I would bet defenses would likely adjust in time, not giving him so much room, lowering his overall percentages.
However, I would like to say I am pleased with his progress in jumpers in general, it's still night and day between last season. He just seems very hesitant on the shot still (was a bit more aggressive in the Golden State game though).

Here's some stretch 4s for comparison (and a not so stretch 4):
Green Text= Player shoots higher percentage than TT.
Red Text = Player shoots lower percentage than TT.


LaMarcus Aldridge
Catch and Shoot: 3.3 / 6.6 - 49.5%
Pull-Up: 2.6 / 6.3 - 41%
12.9 / 20.7 (jump shot/ FGA) - 62.3% of his shot attempts

Dirk Nowitzki
Catch and Shoot: 3.7/ 7.4 - 50%
Pull-Up: 2.6 / 5.5 - 47.2%
12.9 / 15.9 (jump shot/ FGA) - 81% of his shot attempts

Kevin Love
Catch and Shoot: 2.7 / 6.1 - 43.5%
Pull-Up: 0.9 / 3.0 - 28.4%
9.1 / 18.8 (jump shot/ FGA) - 48.4% of his shot attempts

Chris Bosh (I know he usually plays Center now)
Catch and Shoot: 2.1 / 4.9 - 42%
Pull-Up: 0.6 / 1.6 - 40%
6.5 / 11.6 (jump shot/ FGA) - 56% of his shot attempts

Pau Gasol
Catch and Shoot: 1.8 / 4.3 - 41.2%
Pull-Up: 0.3 / 1.0 - 30%
5.3 / 13.7 (jump shot/ FGA) - 39% of his shot attempts

Serge Ibaka
Catch and Shoot: 2.3 / 4.9 - 47.2%
Pull-Up: 0.3 / 0.7 - 45%
5.6 / 11.6 (jump shot/ FGA) - 48.3% of his shot attempts

| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

I'm not even taking into account three pointers. The main thing that separates guys like this from TT is volume and the opposing defense. The other team knows these guys can make and takes more of these shots, therefore I'm sure most of these are contested a bit more than Tristan's. Tristan hasn't taken enough of them for teams to really be defending it much... BUT , again, I do like his progress! Hopefully he stops hesitating so much soon! And in saying all this, I can still see where Torn is coming from.

*Note: There's actually no other Power Forwards I can find that shoots at least 3 Pull-Ups while making them at least 35 percent of the time (other than Dirk and LaMarcus). Though, you probably don't want your 4 generally taking shots like that. Thompson is actually pretty good in that regard.

 

[mAo_mAo]

David lee, KG, dirk, lamarcus, kevin love, timmy d, chris bosh, charlie frye, david west, pau gasol, paul milsap, serge ibaka, brandon bass, terrence jones, boozer.

These players have better mid range game than TT. These guys make defenses react when they receive the ball on the perimeter.

You really need stats to know this,

 

[Tornicade]

David lee, KG, dirk, lamarcus, kevin love, timmy d, chris bosh, charlie frye, david west, pau gasol, paul milsap, serge ibaka, brandon bass, terrence jones, boozer.

These players have better mid range game than TT. These guys make defenses react when they receive the ball on the perimeter.

You really need stats to know this,

all those guys been in the league for five years?

Serge Ibaka. he is entering his fifth year. thats 1. Terrence jones thats 2.

Ibaka third Season

Ibaka - Overall	FGM	FGA	FG%
Restricted Area	2.4	3.5	68.3%
In The Paint (Non-RA)	0.4	1.0	34.8%
Mid-Range	1.2	2.8	42.6%

<tbody>
</tbody>

Jones - Overall	FGM	FGA	FG%
Restricted Area	3.0	4.5	65.6%
In The Paint (Non-RA)	0.6	1.7	37.5%
Mid-Range	0.2	0.6	26.3%
Left Corner 3	0.2	0.3	50.0%
Right Corner 3	0.2	0.5	30.8%
Above the Break 3	0.3	1.0	27.6%
Backcourt	0.0	0.0	0.0%

<tbody>
</tbody>

Thompson

Thompson - Overall	FGM	FGA	FG%
Restricted Area	2.0	4.2	48.0%
In The Paint (Non-RA)	1.6	3.6	44.9%
Mid-Range	1.0	2.2	43.9%

<tbody>
</tbody>

No mid range game whatsoever for Terrence jones.
Thompson is putting up similiar numbers from range as Ibaka in his third season.

still not seeing that ultra elite spacing stretch 4 from the young guns.

[h=2]Shooting - By Area[/h]

Ibaka - Overall	FGM	FGA	FG%
Restricted Area	2.8	4.2	65.9%
In The Paint (Non-RA)	0.5	1.6	31.9%
Mid-Range	2.5	5.1	48.1%
Left Corner 3	0.2	0.5	43.8%
Right Corner 3	0.0	0.2	20.0%
Above the Break 3	0.0	0.0	0.

<tbody>
</tbody>

Serge in his fifth year. Ibaka is a good example of a big who grew his game.

 

[Tornicade]

Lol at stats to argue. Does stats measure being a threat. That is the main reason of having a pf that can shoot. He is a threat. He must be defended. Defenders must take two to three stepsaway from the paint to put a body on him.

TT is not being defended outside 12 feet. It kills penetration especially if you pair him with AV.

its kills penetration yet Irving and Waiters drive to the basket efficiently at will.


Why cant we be honest here.. people want a guy shooting 20+ shots a game from the 4 position and there just any young guys out there doing that at this position

 

[SteelSmack]

I'm not even taking into account three pointers. The main thing that separates guys like this from TT is volume and the opposing defense. The other team knows these guys can make and takes more of these shots, therefore I'm sure most of these are contested a bit more than Tristan's. Tristan hasn't taken enough of them for teams to really be defending it much... BUT , again, I do like his progress! Hopefully he stops hesitating so much soon! And in saying all this, I can still see where Torn is coming from.

Who cares if his percentage drops if teams are defending him, if teams are defending him, the paint is open for Kyrie/Dion/etc. That's the whole point of a stretch 4, to pull a defender out with him. I couldn't care less if TT's numbers drop drastically if teams are defending him, if they're defending him 15 feet from the hoop, they're not defending Kyrie under the basket.

 

[Dr. Claw]

Who cares if his percentage drops if teams are defending him, if teams are defending him, the paint is open for Kyrie/Dion/etc. That's the whole point of a stretch 4, to pull a defender out with him. I couldn't care less if TT's numbers drop drastically if teams are defending him, if they're defending him 15 feet from the hoop, they're not defending Kyrie under the basket.

Bingo. He and Bennett have the most potential of current forwards on the roster to make that kind of move. The second Tristan hits those 15-footers without hesitation AND more regularity (and we know he can, he just needs to just take the pass and go with it)... Kyrie and Dion bulldozing into a sea of defenders becomes "oh look, you idiots left the front door open. LAYUP!"

 

[Tornicade]

I am just trying to poit out that thompson is developing a mid range game and a 4 doesnt have to have super long range to create spacing like some have been trying to argue what makes thompson not suitable as a power forward going forward. also the games where people been crying the loudest(the last 7) Thompson has been performing at a high level offensively on a consistent basis. the team also isnt required to have a pf who will shoot 20 times a game and there hasnt been multiple power forwards that can actually perfom at the level of your aldridges.loves and any other stretch 4 whove been in the league 5+ years. portland and minnesota havent won any championships and guys like leuer and a few others who can hit that job are coming off the bench.

 

[KB]

Lol at stats to argue. Does stats measure being a threat. That is the main reason of having a pf that can shoot. He is a threat. He must be defended. Defenders must take two to three stepsaway from the paint to put a body on him.

TT is not being defended outside 12 feet. It kills penetration especially if you pair him with AV.

Then

David lee, KG, dirk, lamarcus, kevin love, timmy d, chris bosh, charlie frye, david west, pau gasol, paul milsap, serge ibaka, brandon bass, terrence jones, boozer.

These players have better mid range game than TT. These guys make defenses react when they receive the ball on the perimeter.

You really need stats to know this,

Da Fuq?

Poking fun at someone and being condscending as fuck when someone uses stats to make a point

Next post

Make the statement that "stats are really needed to know this"


Are you just trolling Torn again?

Can we keep the circular logic in the Drummond thread and not be condscending as fuck towards people, for once?

 

[Kouki]

i think he was being facetious with "you really need stats to know this"

 

[Spencer Hawes]

Then



Da Fuq?

Poking fun at someone and being condscending as fuck when someone uses stats to make a point

Next post

Make the statement that "stats are really needed to know this"


Are you just trolling Torn again?

Can we keep the circular logic in the Drummond thread and not be condscending as fuck towards people, for once?

Actually it's not. Torn is using stats to say TT is at least a top 3 shooting PF in the NBA. He's not taking into consideration if those shots are wide open or with a defender actually guarding him. Michael-Carter Williams is leading the league in steals at 3.11 per game. Ricky Rubio is second with 2.81. Going by Torn's logic, those two are, at least, the are top 3 defenders in the league. The hell with Tony Allen or the Queen.

Also, the Drummond reference was brought up by him. I already told him to get that weak shit outta here.

 

[Tornicade]

Actually it's not. Torn is using stats to say TT is at least a top 3 shooting PF in the NBA. He's not taking into consideration if those shots are wide open or with a defender actually guarding him. Michael-Carter Williams is leading the league in steals at 3.11 per game. Ricky Rubio is second with 2.81. Going by Torn's logic, those two are, at least, the are top 3 defenders in the league. The hell with Tony Allen or the Queen.

Also, the Drummond reference was brought up by him. I already told him to get that weak shit outta here.

no im using stats to show that Thompson is developing a mid range game that can establish spacing. I am also using stats to show that the stretch 4 is now on the verge of extinction. just like we saw with the the traditional center a few years ago.

It does two things. first it highlights thompson growth at the 4 with comparison of his peers. 2ndthe lack of stretch 4's also shows why Bennett was a worthwhile gamble as a number 1 pick.

I also thought if people actually looked at the 4's coming in the league the last 4 years like Monroe, Ibaka, Favors etc. perhaps people might appreciate that Thompson was the right pick for the cavs at the 4 and is a legitimate nba starter which people seems to want to question all the time.

 

[Dr. Claw]

its kills penetration yet Irving and Waiters drive to the basket efficiently at will.


Why cant we be honest here.. people want a guy shooting 20+ shots a game from the 4 position and there just any young guys out there doing that at this position

we'll take that from whoever can do it (I think that's the general thrust of drafting Bennett and bringing in Earl Clark, for example). I think Tristan has the most promise, followed by AB IF he can get minutes and recover (I'm not adverse to him going to the D-League if that's what it takes). the Cavs desperately need a shooter on the wing. a guy that the ball handler can just kick it to and make the defense pay for not guarding... or when they do guard him, the ball handler can make it to the hoop without there basically being the basketball version of "8 in the box" under the rim.

 

[czvo]

I'm about done with this kid. If I have to see him turn down another wide open 15-footer... just take the damn shot. You're wide open. You've hit it before. You're not getting a better look with 5 on the shot clock. LET. THAT. BALL. FLY.