Tristan Thompson

[CosmoKramer]

Stats lie.

He was propped up by Kyrie Irving at the expense of the offensive flow and that's crystal clear now.

We now have another "big" option for scoring and rebounding and BOTH have dropped significantly for TT. Explain that, please.

Stats lie? You called out TT's rebounding, he's fucking leading all PFs in total offensive boards at 228. His 3.3 offensive rebounds a game is tied with Anthony Davis and Zach Randolph, only people without a functioning brain (like that?) are questioning TT's rebounding at this point.

Propped up by Kyrie? That's quite the statement, have anything other than your personal bias against TT to back that up? I love Kyrie but at this point in his career he's excelled at creating scoring opportunities for himself more than others.

And the drop in points/rebounds coincides more with the return of Andy than Hawes. His per-game numbers were great in the first 6 games with Hawes in lineup (32 minutes, 14 points on 60 FG% 70 FT%, 10.5 rebounds, 1.5 assists). His numbers since Andy returned (27.7 minutes, 7 points, 5.2 rebounds, .5 assists) are not.

No, he hasn't developed if he's regressed to his rookie-year self for an entire month. It's easy to put up numbers on a shitty team when you're essentially the featured big, which he was with the hobbled Varejao and Zeller. With prime Varejao and now Hawes, guys who are physically able to do the same things TT ONLY does, TT hasn't looked like a player that deserves to be on an NBA court. Why isn't that more concerning to you?

Have you ever heard of a slump Ed? It doesn't mean a player's not developed in the time he's been in the league, it means he's playing poorly for a stretch of games. His minutes and usage rate are down and we've been playing tough defense after tough defense, that's why it's not overly concerning. These past 9 games haven't been great, but on the flip side his numbers from the 9 games before this stretch were outstanding. 15-12 on close to 58% from the field and 70% from the line? Seems like those games are a distant memory to you though.

You're right, nobody has ever used the word 'finesse' to describe TT but that's not because he's a physical player, it's because he's as mechanical and skill-less as any basketball player I've ever seen. He's a bulldozer that can't bulldoze.

This makes absolutely no sense. Are you seriously this blind to TT's physical play?

I don't care what he actually shoots at the rim, I'm sick of watching him miss 5 fucking shots a game from 3 feet away from the hoop that my 3-year old daughter could make. He does NOTHING else on offense other than clog the paint.[/B] He can't play on the perimeter so nobody guards him, he doesn't have a post game, he struggles to finish thru contact, he doesn't have court vision, so should we start him just because he has a 'push' shot? He needs to be able to do more on both sides of the ball to be a viable starter and up to this point, he's proven to be incapable.

I never said his push shot was the reason he should be playing, I used it to show he did in fact develop at the NBA level. The reason TT is on the court isn't for his offense, it's to play tough, physical defense and clean the boards. I realize that doesn't mean much to you, you'd much rather watch AB and that pretty jumper of his play matador defense on the perimeter and fail to box out anyone down low.

We drafted a Ferrari at PF and let him rot on the bench in favor of a fuckin lawn mower.....

:chuckles:

A Ferrari?! More like

 

[DatDudeZ3]

A Ferrari?! More like

I can see the resemblance of Bennett... Black/brown color to it, has some nice features (rims/wheels) but the overall body needs work like Bennett's game. Bennett hasn't played much, just like the cars tires looking relatively new, hasn't been drove that long.

 

[Derek]

I don't understand why nobody can seem to talk about either Thompson or Bennett in a positive way without trying to simultaneously put down the other.

The best case scenario for this team is that both of them work out. They each have the capability to bring a lot of positive attributes to the team. Personally, I think Bennett will end up being the better overall player, but that doesn't mean Thompson can't be a good player as well.

There's nothing wrong with who Tristan is as a player. The problems that arise are caused by him being forced to play outside of his role either through his own fault, the coach's fault, or due to the construction of the roster. It's the same with any player, if you ask them to play outside of their skill set, they aren't going to look good.

 

[cavfanintexas]

I don't understand why nobody can seem to talk about either Thompson or Bennett in a positive way without trying to simultaneously put down the other.

The best case scenario for this team is that both of them work out. They each have the capability to bring a lot of positive attributes to the team. Personally, I think Bennett will end up being the better overall player, but that doesn't mean Thompson can't be a good player as well.

There's nothing wrong with who Tristan is as a player. The problems that arise are caused by him being forced to play outside of his role either through his own fault, the coach's fault, or due to the construction of the roster. It's the same with any player, if you ask them to play outside of their skill set, they aren't going to look good.

I agree with you which is different, but you are right, I could care less which is better TT or Bennett all I want is the Cavs to be better.

 

[Lee63]

Well over their 1st 6 games together TT averaged 14ppg on 60% from the field and 10.5rpg.

The most recent 8 games he is at 7.13ppg on 35% shooting and 6.13 rpg.

What's his average over all 14 games Hawes and TT have played together? 10.1 ppg on 48% shooting and 8 rpg.

What's TT's career averages? 10.7ppg on 47% shooting and 8.5rpg.

So maybe the only thing to explain is that TT is in a slump right now (basically all of March)? Ah, but that wouldn't fit the narrative.

And make no mistake, I think TT's play this month has been extremely disappointing and overall I do wish he were a more dynamic player, but your hyperbole is tiresome to read.

The recent 8 games stats are correct but with all due respect the rest are not accurate. Hawes and TT have not played 14 games together but 12. Hawes came on board in the Raptors game. That will change the stats. 9.7ppg, 7.5 rpg fg%45%

I'm not sure which first 6 games you are referring to? First six games of the season which his stats would have been 11.8 ppg, 9.6 rpg, fg%37%. We were playing Nets, Cats, Pacers, Twolves, Bucks, 76ers. These teams with the exception of Pacers do not compare to the last 8 top seeded teams we have played. You can look at every game stat of Tristan and (I have) and what stares you in the face is he cannot compete effectively as a starter against teams like Pacers, Spurs, Knicks, Golden State, Clippers, OKC, Rockets, Kings, Celtics, 50/50 with the Heat. We play each of these teams about 4 times a year and that's a lot of losses. I certainly not suggesting he is the sole reason of course but it is a contributing factor. He is a limited player in the sense his assists are still 0? He 's not a good passer, has not developed a consistent jump shot, does not take a charge, FT%66% Defense Stats: Player Opponent Points is % the opponent can score on you when you defend. Tristan under the rim is 63%, from 5-9 ft 40%. This is bad when Raymond Felton is 59% under the rim and 34% from 5-9ft. BLKS: 0.4 This position needs to improve. You can check these stats at http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomptr01.html and nba.com

 

[Rich]

I don't understand why nobody can seem to talk about either Thompson or Bennett in a positive way without trying to simultaneously put down the other.

The best case scenario for this team is that both of them work out. They each have the capability to bring a lot of positive attributes to the team. Personally, I think Bennett will end up being the better overall player, but that doesn't mean Thompson can't be a good player as well.

There's nothing wrong with who Tristan is as a player. The problems that arise are caused by him being forced to play outside of his role either through his own fault, the coach's fault, or due to the construction of the roster. It's the same with any player, if you ask them to play outside of their skill set, they aren't going to look good.

Because, at he moment, there isn't a whole lot of positives to talk about with either guy.

 

[supermario21]

The sad reality of it is the team is going to have to pick 1. And because Tristan is up for an extension soon, the clock is ticking. You don't roll with 2 top 4 picks at the same position long-term because of the money situation. You can find a defensive backup big on a vet minimum contract or a midlevel if you're going to go with Bennett over Thompson, and if you go the other way, you can usually just play a bigger SF at the 4 if you have one. It's hard to call Tristan a bust because there are few players who were taking below him lighting it up, but he's not worth a huge contract. Heck if Andy is still around after next season you bring him on a vet minimum deal or mid-level and just give him 20 minutes a game until he retires.

 

[CornerThree]

Henry Sims posted 18 points and 15 rebounds and 2 blocks tonight. Maybe we traded the wrong big.



j/k

 

[oasis05]

Sims was looking like an nba player. More so than bust Bennett and empty stats Thompson. we needed a big man shooter. Now we just need to get some type of defender up front.

 

[Lee63]

Tristan as hard as it was to watch him continuously get the ball stripped from him; he did better in this game. Thompson 12pts 10 rebs fg% 50% he made both of his free throws, 1 assist 0 turnovers

There seems to perhaps be a chemistry issue with him and HAwes as of lately. Clifton reported Jack had to call out the Bigs to stop worrying about their stats and play like a team. (It's doubtful the reference was to Zeller or Andy) My biggest concern I have with Tristan is he doesn't pass the ball !! He is in his 3rd year and he has a lowly 0.6 assist rate?? He would rather hold onto that ball getting banged in the head by 3 guys, get it stripped away than pass it out to another team mate. Because he in particular has had a horrible string of bad 9 games ; it is likely he was the desperate one to want "to get his" This kind of attitude hurts the entire team when opportunities to score are lost .

 

[Photon]

Stats and all that can tell you just so much of a story. They don't show you missed cuts, looking in the wrong direction, player being pushed around, awkward moves etc. It's rare that his basketball looks good.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Tristan as hard as it was to watch him continuously get the ball stripped from him; he did better in this game. Thompson 12pts 10 rebs fg% 50% he made both of his free throws, 1 assist 0 turnovers

Switch those around- 10 points and 12 rebounds

There seems to perhaps be a chemistry issue with him and HAwes as of lately. Clifton reported Jack had to call out the Bigs to stop worrying about their stats and play like a team. (It's doubtful the reference was to Zeller or Andy) My biggest concern I have with Tristan is he doesn't pass the ball !! He is in his 3rd year and he has a lowly 0.6 assist rate?? He would rather hold onto that ball getting banged in the head by 3 guys, get it stripped away than pass it out to another team mate. Because he in particular has had a horrible string of bad 9 games ; it is likely he was the desperate one to want "to get his" This kind of attitude hurts the entire team when opportunities to score are lost .

I'm glad Jarrett Jack was the voice of reason here, he sure knows what playing team basketball looks like.

TT's assist ratio isn't great at 6.6%, which is down from a respectable 9.3% last year, but it's not like he can't be an effective PF because of it. Look at some other young PFs rates the past two years- Derrick Favors (8.5-7.9), Anthony Davis (6.8-7.1), Serge Ibaka (4.2-6.2). Don't know why that's your biggest concern with TT.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

Switch those around- 10 points and 12 rebounds



I'm glad Jarrett Jack was the voice of reason here, he sure knows what playing team basketball looks like.

TT's assist ratio isn't great at 6.6%, which is down from a respectable 9.3% last year, but it's not like he can't be an effective PF because of it. Look at some other young PFs rates the past two years- Derrick Favors (8.5-7.9), Anthony Davis (6.8-7.1), Serge Ibaka (4.2-6.2). Don't know why that's your biggest concern with TT.

I have to laugh out loud at this. Derrick Favors is a defensive presence. Anthony Davis is a defensive/offensive presence. Serge Ibaka is a defensive presence/offensive presence. TT? A hustle presence? Don't even try to put TT in their category, it's not even right. And if JJ is right about players wanting to pad their stats, it's saying something. Dion called Kyrie and TT out for playing buddy ball. It's funny how the guy with the most replaceable production get's the most excuses made for him.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I have to laugh out loud at this. Derrick Favors is a defensive presence. Anthony Davis is a defensive/offensive presence. Serge Ibaka is a defensive presence/offensive presence. TT? A hustle presence? Don't even try to put TT in their category, it's not even right. And if JJ is right about players wanting to pad their stats, it's saying something. Dion called Kyrie and TT out for playing buddy ball. It's funny how the guy with the most replaceable production get's the most excuses made for him.

Blue, can you just read my posts before you rush in to attack assumptions I didn't even make?

A poster said his biggest concern with TT was his assist rate, which I find weird. There's other young PFs in the league that you yourself would rush in to point out out how great they are, even though they have comparable assist rates to TT. I made no mentions of defensive presence, and I didn't make a single excuse for TT. I made a point about their similar assist rates, and you rush to assume I view Tristan alongside them in overall value. Great stuff Blue, really furthering the discussion on these boards.

 

[supermario21]

For whoever compared Thompson to Ibaka, you need to watch more Ibaka. His shooting is progressing like Bosh to the point I've seen Ibaka take and make 3's. He's also comfortable stepping out of the paint to take 15-20 ft jumpers. TT last night passed those shots up, dribbled into the paint, and still missed.