What happened to the best young team in baseball?

[DougHeil]

Well, Shapiro isn't talking about rebuilding there- he is talking about getting back to the playoffs. He didn't say 'after 3 years'- he said in the next three years. He isn't talking about what you think he is talking about.

As I stated in my post, I kind of agree. There is ample talent on this team. The offense is in very good shape. The pitching staff is where changes are needed, and the club isn't devoid at the minor league level. I think his optimism that the club could be back in the playoffs in the next three years, despite a possible loss of Lee and/or Martinez, has to do with guys like Carlos Santana, Matt LaPorta, Jeanmar Gomez, Hector Rondon, Nick Weglarz, etc. The Tribe will have some young offensive players to deal to fill out holes in the pitching staff, too.

Well sure, but why would he say within the next three years? That's not giving the current players much optimism or hope, nor the fans, NOR the Dolans. Do we really want to give this current regime three more years? Heck, they are working on seven years right now. One playoff appearance in that time and Shapiro is now saying within the next three years. He stated and so did most everyone we would win the damn division THIS YEAR. Not within the next three years. Do you see what I mean?

 

[Chris]

That Grady Sizemore "beyond Baseball" commercial inspired me tonight.

Go Tribe!
















Wait, no.

 

[AZ_]

right. Those 9 dingers and 22 rbi (HOLY SHIT!!!) are exactly what I'm looking for out of a DH that gets paid 11.5 million per year. What was I thinking.

Kind of the point of prefacing my statement with "if healthy and on the field."

When he has been healthy and on the field, he has been fine.

Obviously he's not completely void of power like people all thought he was. I'd just like to get him healthy enough to do that everyday instead of 2 of every 3.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I agree with most (of OP).

If you give Marte another shot...it's definitely his last. That guy is bi-polar.

I do think as others have said you keep Cabrera in the no-trade talks and I think Martinez as well.

I still think we need some proven guys in the bullpen.....Kerry Wood can still pitch.

Grady is still capable of being a star...he's still very young.

Wedge needs to go, seriously.

 

[DougHeil]

Kind of the point of prefacing my statement with "if healthy and on the field."

When he has been healthy and on the field, he has been fine.

Obviously he's not completely void of power like people all thought he was. I'd just like to get him healthy enough to do that everyday instead of 2 of every 3.

Totally agree with Hafner. I think he looks good considering the last two years or so and his shoulder this year. I'm all for seeing what he can still do when completely healthy. Besides, I believe his contract is through 2011, right?

It's never really a good thing when a team has two qualtiy DH'ers on it's roster who really shouldn't be playing defense. Garko and Hafner. Garko could just possibly be a great everyday DH if not for Hafner being here. To complicate things further; we have many players who can play 1st and that's really the only position you can hide Garko safely.

The team is just a mess. It's hard to say where to go from here. I guess it all depends on if Shapiro and the Dolans think they can win next year... or not.

 

[mixman]

Kind of the point of prefacing my statement with "if healthy and on the field."

When he has been healthy and on the field, he has been fine.

Obviously he's not completely void of power like people all thought he was. I'd just like to get him healthy enough to do that everyday instead of 2 of every 3.

Yeah, I always liked Pronk, but he's really fallen off since he took that ball to the noodle. He's going to have to show me more than a quarter of a season of hitting decently before i'm convinced he's still near where he used to be.

For the most part, I think this team really needs to clean house and blow it up. On the other hand, I'm not sure if that will even work because the ownership is unwilling to spend any money to get this team better. I think we're going to be stuck in a rut for a long time coming.

 

[Chris]

Yeah, I always liked Pronk, but he's really fallen off since he took that ball to the noodle. He's going to have to show me more than a quarter of a season of hitting decently before i'm convinced he's still near where he used to be.

For the most part, I think this team really needs to clean house and blow it up. On the other hand, I'm not sure if that will even work because the ownership is unwilling to spend any money to get this team better. I think we're going to be stuck in a rut for a long time coming.

It really had nothing to do with the ball to the head. But I agree, we do need to clean house.

I wish people would stop expecting this team to spend like the Yankees and Red Sox. It'll never happen and you don't need to do that to compete anyways. Most teams in MLB don't spend like that. The $81 million payroll the Indians have is plenty enough to field a World Series caliber team.

That is fact. It's how you spend the money. Dolan paid Hafner, he paid Westbrook. CC was offered what, $20 million a year? That's big time $$$. I'm pissed they let CC walk but in the end nobody but the Yankees were ever getting him. Dolan may not have spent the money wisely but he is spending it.

 

[DougHeil]

It really had nothing to do with the ball to the head. But I agree, we do need to clean house.

I wish people would stop expecting this team to spend like the Yankees and Red Sox. It'll never happen and you don't need to do that to compete anyways. Most teams in MLB don't spend like that. The $81 million payroll the Indians have is plenty enough to field a World Series caliber team.

That is fact. It's how you spend the money. Dolan paid Hafner, he paid Westbrook. CC was offered what, $20 million a year? That's big time $$$. I'm pissed they let CC walk but in the end nobody but the Yankees were ever getting him. Dolan may not have spent the money wisely but he is spending it.

I agree with this.

Some more unwise spendings are giving a manager a contract extension after only ONE good season of the playoffs. Another is giving the GM an extension at the very same time. Those two are connected at the hip in more ways than one. I'm just wondering how long the Dolans are going to put up with below average results after they indeed have not been afraid to spend some money. I mean gee; they offered CC anywhere from 18 to 20m per year. Probably for about 4 or 5 years. But it was not 25M per year nor was it for seven years. Are the Yankees getting what they paid for? That's debatable. The thing is though; they can afford to overspend on players and hit or miss. If CC wins 15 games this year, they will call it a success. We all know he will NOT be very good after 4 or 5 more years of pitching.

The Dolans have done what they can do as far as spending money goes, but they don't seem to get it when it comes to holding onto players or management way too long.

 

[Wes]

As far as bringing up young players goes, the sooner you bring them up, the sooner they will reach free agency. I don't know how it exactly works, but you lose control of their contracts, and they begin to run out of options, when you bring them up. So if guys like Santana and Welgarz are brought up this year (when they aren't ready), they will be that much closer to arbitration and free agency when they are ready.

For example, David Price of the Rays was ready to contribute on the big league club at the start of this season. But the Rays kept him in AAA until almost June, so that they will have control over his contract for one more year.

I'm sure someone else can explain this a lot better than I can... Bottom line, it is quite doubtful you will see young prospects (like Welgarz, Santana, maybe even Brantley) brought up this season, but you will see guys like Marte and LaPorta back up before too long.

 

[Silky Smooth]

I think Dan Gilbert needs to buy the Indians and Browns and build those teams up the way he has the Cavs. Actually he needs to just invest into the whole city of Cleveland. He would certainly build up this city to be a great city.

 

[macbdog]

There isn't much to be done with Pronk- when his shoulder is up to snuff, he can still rake. Problem is that he just isn't healthy. He isn't washed up but he isn't at 100% either. Even now he is back in a power drought, although he is still driving the ball into the gaps. Still a solid hitter, but yeah, Tribe isn't getting their money's worth.

 

[Chris]

I agree with this.

Some more unwise spendings are giving a manager a contract extension after only ONE good season of the playoffs. Another is giving the GM an extension at the very same time. Those two are connected at the hip in more ways than one. I'm just wondering how long the Dolans are going to put up with below average results after they indeed have not been afraid to spend some money. I mean gee; they offered CC anywhere from 18 to 20m per year. Probably for about 4 or 5 years. But it was not 25M per year nor was it for seven years. Are the Yankees getting what they paid for? That's debatable. The thing is though; they can afford to overspend on players and hit or miss. If CC wins 15 games this year, they will call it a success. We all know he will NOT be very good after 4 or 5 more years of pitching.

The Dolans have done what they can do as far as spending money goes, but they don't seem to get it when it comes to holding onto players or management way too long.

That's what I mean, about CC/Yankees. No, they are not getting their money's worth. Far from it. But they were the only team that was going to get CC. They were willing to pay him anything and their offer was so ludicrous it blew anything anyone else would offer way out of the water. $161 million? Fer realzies? :chuckles:

Just, really can't blame the Dolans. Again, I stress that if Dolan consistently shells out $80 million for this team per year, that is enough to win us a WS and make us a yearly contender. (of course, rebuilds will always be necessary evils, as they are with anyone not called Boston or New York)

But he money has to be spent correctly. Isn't Shapiro in charge of HOW it gets spent?

 

[AZ_]

There isn't much to be done with Pronk- when his shoulder is up to snuff, he can still rake. Problem is that he just isn't healthy. He isn't washed up but he isn't at 100% either. Even now he is back in a power drought, although he is still driving the ball into the gaps. Still a solid hitter, but yeah, Tribe isn't getting their money's worth.

It would be amazing how much less you would think of Dan Gilbert if he didn't have the greatest superstar of our generation to build a company around?

 

[mixman]

It really had nothing to do with the ball to the head. But I agree, we do need to clean house.

I wish people would stop expecting this team to spend like the Yankees and Red Sox. It'll never happen and you don't need to do that to compete anyways. Most teams in MLB don't spend like that. The $81 million payroll the Indians have is plenty enough to field a World Series caliber team.

That is fact. It's how you spend the money. Dolan paid Hafner, he paid Westbrook. CC was offered what, $20 million a year? That's big time $$$. I'm pissed they let CC walk but in the end nobody but the Yankees were ever getting him. Dolan may not have spent the money wisely but he is spending it.

lol. I guess it's not that we don't spend money, we just don't spend it wisely. I didn't even know our payroll was that high.

I have a big problem with baseball at the moment right now. I know that small market teams can make a run, but at the end of the day the league is still dominated by teams from the 5 major markets. It feels like the other 20+ teams are just feeder clubs for them.

 

[Chris]

lol. I guess it's not that we don't spend money, we just don't spend it wisely. I didn't even know our payroll was that high.

I have a big problem with baseball at the moment right now. I know that small market teams can make a run, but at the end of the day the league is still dominated by teams from the 5 major markets. It feels like the other 20+ teams are just feeder clubs for them.

I agree to an extent. But at some point you have to realize that teams win the World Series in those markets all the time. The Yankees have not won in a while, and while the Red Sox spend a lot, it's their young players and farm talent that has them where they are. They have a great front office.

The Indians just need to start doing two things:

drafting smart

and

spending smart

Do that and they will be a model mid-market franchise. Easier said than done, I know, but they have made a lot of dumb mistakes here...like giving Hafner the money they did, when that $$ could have been spent elsewhere (granted no one could foresee his regression HOWEVER no DH is worth that much money) and also their drafts have bombed pretty bad although Boobie will argue they are "getting better at drafting".

Just some random thoughts, I think if this team had a competent FO then we'd be fine with an $81 million payroll.