• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Why do we want to trade drew?

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
LyXo said:
Taking the ball away means taking the pressure away as well. I don't think there will be much complaining if the plays made are successful. Duhon is a capable point guard and a good decision maker. And, we haven't seen what such a point guard will do, playing next to LeBron.

take the pressure away from the defense you mean? You don't want LeBron in a catch and shoot role, you want him creating.

LeBron/Hughes can "fill" that hole, but how successful have they been in the past? Not very, just in spurts. And, besides... Hughes, on offense, is a LeBron clone without a deadly 3-point shot.

They played togehter 28 games, Hughes wasn't 100% in any of them, the team went 18-10 and soundly beat the pistons in the last game Hughes played. This while learning how to play with each other and how to play Mike Brown's defense. I expect them to play at a higher level together when Hughes returns.
 
One more thing to consider is that there is the possibility of some team with lots of cap room coming in and offering Gooden a ton of money this summer that the Cavs won't match. The Cavs could lose Gooden and get nothing in return.

PG is a very tough position to fill. Just look at the Cavs since Andre Miller was traded. If Gooden can bring a quality PG now than I do the deal. There are signs the Cavs don't feel Gooden is the right long term fit at PF and they can fill a need by trading him.
 
take the pressure away from the defense you mean? You don't want LeBron in a catch and shoot role, you want him creating.

Not to rag on his creating skills... but he does quite well when catching-and-shooting in rhythm... those are the 3's he tends to make. As opposed to his "created" 3's...which probably clank more than half the time.
Yes, I would love to see him create his shot by going to the hole every time, which is where he's best, but he doesn't do it all the time, and the more players on the court that do that, the better.
And it works both ways: making defenders pay for double teams, and taking pressure off of LeBron to score every trip by having other capable players on the floor.

They played togehter 28 games, Hughes wasn't 100% in any of them, the team went 18-10 and soundly beat the pistons in the last game Hughes played. This while learning how to play with each other and how to play Mike Brown's defense. I expect them to play at a higher level together when Hughes returns.

Tendencies on offense.. don't tend to change much.

Hughes goes to the hole and either gets fouled or drops it off to Gooden/Z. LeBron stands on the arc to prevent clogging of the paint.
or... LeBron goes to the hole, and Hughes stands on the perimeter. LeBron takes it strong or kicks it out to someone.
Perhaps there could be more cuts and actual plays... but I dont see much offense being worked on this season...
Both need to learn how to work off the ball better... Hughes should be much better, having played in Washington with Arenas, but surprisingly not.

Yes, they do need time, but if we get a guy like Duhon, we'll definitely improve, even at the expense of DG.


But, unless we get a much better deal (which we have leverage to obtain), then we probably won't pull the trigger until the offseason. Bulls need a turnaround and such a trade will allow that. The Cavs want to stay the winning course but also don't want to pass up a deal for the future...
Say, fish around for a deal like Gooden for Duhon, Malik Allen, and a 1st rounder... if the Bulls get desperate, they may bite.
Then try to find another trade for a capable big... Damon Jones + Luke Jackson + 2nd rounder for Nazr Mohammed?
 
A little article I wrote this past offseason... some food for thought.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good enough?
-LyXo-
Upon entering free agency last summer, the Cavaliers were without a serviceable starting power forward after that one guy, like many other professional athletes, bolted Cleveland for the bigger payroll. Out of nowhere, our most reliable, consistent player was no longer in a Cavaliers uniform. Our Olympian, one of nine players in the NBA to average a double-double, and most improved player runner-up. For the two weeks following the day he signed that fateful 60 million dollar contract, all fingers were pointed at the front office. How could they allow such a thing to happen? How could such an easy decision turn into disaster? And, more importantly, what were they going to do about the missing 15 points and 11 rebounds a game that were now gone from Cavaliers statistics?

Then, out of the blue, through the shaky hands of GM Jim Paxson, a resolution was made. After acquiring Eric Snow in a trade that dumped the horrible contract of Kevin Ollie and lazy Kedrick Brown, Paxson made a trade that could be argued as his best ever, after flopping time after time in his tenure at the helm. On July 23rd, 2004, he sent oft-injured Tony Battie and some 2nd rounders to Orlando for the draft rights to a crazy-haired Brazilian, Stephen Hunter, and the 4th pick in the 2002 NBA draft from Kansas: Drew Gooden.

Standing at 6 feet 10 inches and tipping the scales at 242 pounds, Drew Gooden has the prototypical power forward body. After an outstanding stay in Kansas where he averaged 19.8 points and 11.4 rebounds in his final year, Memphis drafted him 4th overall. He was ESPN The Magazine Forward of the Year, Sporting News First-Team All America and received Basketball America Player of the Year honors. Every draft report had him pinned as a future superstar because of his offensive skill set, rebound-crashing tenacity, and superior athleticism.

In Memphis, he was not allowed to become that. There, he was stuck behind Pau Gasol, 2001 Rookie of the Year. Eventually he was forced to play out of position at the small forward because of his lack of toughness to bang with NBA power forwards. Soon after he was traded to the Orlando Magic, where he landed a starting job and a fresh start.

He took full advantage of it, averaging 14 points and 12 rebounds in the playoffs that year against Ben Wallace, annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate. His future was looking bright until Orlando brought in Juwan Howard. It was Memphis all over again.

Being ousted out of his starting spot after a stellar off-season was a low blow to Gooden. After one more regular season with them, it was apparently time for another change of scenery. He was traded to Cleveland, packaged with their #2 and the bench warmer for a veteran big man in Tony Battie. Gooden was more than excited at this opportunity to prove himself, once again, as a legitimate starter in the league.

Cavaliers fans were relieved at the trade. They no longer had to worry about Battie’s knees as a starter or the glimpse of DeSagana Diop playing more than 10 minutes. However, he was not simply a replacement, but a future sidekick to LeBron James, so expectations were high.

Gooden did deliver. In the preseason, he averaged 12 points and 10 rebounds, showing his rebounding and scoring prowess. His first regular season game, however, was a disaster. He played poorly defensively and looking lost on the court against a shorthanded Indiana team. Next game, he rebounded and broke out with a 24 point 11 rebound performance against the Miami Heat and followed up with a 16 point 21 rebound stat-stuffer versus the rising Suns a week later. He went to finish his first season as a Cavalier averaging 14.6 points and 9.2 rebounds per game, more than supple numbers for a power forward.

Gooden did what he was asked to: rebound and score a bit. He did it well. But unlike his predecessor, he was inconsistent. Despite having those performances against Miami and Phoenix, it’s what happened in between that should raise eyebrows and instill doubt. He logged 17 minutes when matched up against the Bucks, scoring 12 points but only grabbing a measly 2 rebounds. Next game, he was on the hardwood for 18 minutes, scoring 2 points and cleaning glass 4 times against the lowly Hawks, completely outclassed by Antoine Walker. Gooden was in and out of the rotation loop throughout November.

The main driving force behind this could have been Paul Silas, head coach. Every mental lapse or mistake and Gooden was on the bench. Always looking over his shoulder, Gooden was unable to play his game to the full potential. He was missing rotations, not helping on defense, making bad passes, or taking bad shots. Silas wanted a bruiser in the middle used solely for rebounding. Gooden got too lost in his offense that he’d forget to grab those boards. He’ll remember every game or so, but forgets more often than not.

Thus was the story of Drew Gooden. When he came out to play, you could expect a 25 point 12 rebound performance. When he didn’t, you’d see less than 5 rebounds and a lot of towel waving.

There was one thing that was consistent about Drew Gooden: his defense. Missed assignments, being beat in the post, being beat off the dribble, not following his man off the ball: all qualities of a poor defender in the NBA. Pairing him with a slow-footed Z in a shoddy defensive system exposed the lack of interior defense the Cavaliers had.

Regardless of this, many fans became complacent with Gooden. After all, he did what he had to do: grab rebounds and score. But, is there time for complacency? Can we afford his mental mistakes in the future as we wait for him to mature? Will his defense improve? And is he as tough as the scouts thought he was in 2002?

No, no, and no. It was a nice flirt with Gooden, but it doesn’t seem like he’s the right fit here in Cleveland. Mental mistakes will occur as he’s still young and has just received consistent minutes for the first time in his career. But I don’t see him learning help defense. I don’t see him protecting our interior like he should. I can’t see him working in an intricate system that Coach Mike Brown will employ. He’s just too spacey, too lofty in the head to stay focused. He's too weak and I don't see him getting much stronger or more athletic to go up strong to the basket.


People look at his numbers and believe he’s the real deal and a good fit alongside Z and LeBron. They are quick to forget that the guy he replaced averaged one more point and two more rebounds per game than he did. Those numbers are small, yes. But just a year ago, the Cavaliers were the number one rebounding team in the NBA. Number one. This season, after the departure of Boozer, the Cavaliers slipped to 14th place. This is with the best offensive rebounding center in the NBA. We can see that Carlos definitely benefited from playing with Z, as his numbers were down this season. Yet Gooden, who this season had the benefit of space created by Ilgauskas, still failed to eclipse Boozer’s stats and never came close to matching his consistency.

This is not to say that we need Boozer back (despite having a tough body he still was absent on the defensive end). But we need a power forward of his size and style rather than a Drew Gooden. We need a bruiser in the middle: a tough, tenacious rebounder and defender. Gooden is way too soft to be considered any of these. Time after time again I would see Gooden try to go up strong and get denied. I see wide-open shots by the opposing power forwards. I look to his past and wonder why he was never a consistent starter, now I know after observing him for a season.

Drew Gooden is a talented power forward, everyone can agree with that. Very few are capable of putting up 14/9 for a season. But I do not think that he’d be a fit here for the future. I don’t think that his style of play is what we need at his position alongside Ilgauskas, Hughes, and James. This postseason has shown that strong interior defense is imperative to success in this league and Drew Gooden can’t bring that to the table right now.

Gooden can have a prominent role off the bench here in Cleveland, but it does not seem that he will be content with it. It will benefit both parties if Gooden were in another uniform: the amount we’d be willing to pay isn’t going to be enough. I believe that he can flourish elsewhere with teams that need a post scoring threat, making him the 2nd or 3rd option on offense and getting paid a Boozer-like salary as opposed to the 5th option he would be here in Cleveland riding the MLE, hurting us defensively.

When we look at Gooden, we need to quit looking back over our shoulder at what we lost in Boozer and how he did well to replace. We have to look at what we have in Gooden now, and what we need at the power forward position. We rewarded him enough for his performance with 4 million dollars in salary. We don’t need to say we owe him another starting job here because he did it "well." It’s hard to say, but the best complement to Z, Hughes, and LBJ would be a tough rebounder and defender, and that is not Drew Gooden.
 
drew is a top power forward in the east. maybe not an allstar yet but as close as you can get to one without being one. so why give him up for duke alumni chris duhon?

the bulls are desperado to unload duhon on some one suspecting sole. we don't need to be contributing to their charity case. if duhon was that hot he would 've won more rings at duke and would've gotten the bulls into the playoffs last year. but did he. no?

there's no chance in heck that gilbert lets gooden go for naught. that would be incompetent on his part. gooden is not our most tradeable asset. put james on the market for a split second and you would see that is the case. or hughes. or ilgauskas. we are a team of valuable players. let's not forget how good we are. the third best record in the east conference. one of the top teams in the entire nba. we don't want to have gooden going gone like carlos the boozer. let's keep this team intact.
 
Lebron, Larry and Lebron are untouchable, so they are not tradable...your last post made absolutely no sense what so ever..

What Duhon did at Duke has nothing to do with what kind of player he is now...Duke is a TEAM and we aren't discussing weather he had a good team in college or not, that is irrelevent.

Duhon is movable from Chicago because they have a lot of people at the one, much like we have a lot of people at the four.

Nobody said Gooden is going to be traded for nothing, but like I said in another post and Narl mentioned, some team can come in with some crazy offer that the Cavs would be stupid to match and boom...there goes Gooden. For naught. as you put it.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-15: "Cavs Survive and Advance"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:15: Cavs Survive and Advance
Top