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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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The Wizard of Moz said:
Thanks I’ll check it out after work. I would ask though assuming it isn’t addressed in the article, why wasn’t 10 games worth of game film enough last year for teams to figure out Baker’s tendencies? The Ravens week 17 still couldn’t figure it out. Why wouldn’t teams make these adjustments during the year last year when there was 3/4 a season worth of tape
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I’ll own that I don’t have a great response. Maybe an entire offseason of film watching helped? You’d like to think that pro coaches don’t need more than a couple of days of film study to adjust though, right?

I remember Baker having a monster game but don’t remember the exact game flow. Maybe Baltimore did adjust but he was just on such a roll that he out executed them. Again, I don’t have a great response, awesome question.
 
Sorry, I'm not an X's or O's guy or anything of that ilk, just a casual fan, but on that fourth down play it looks like Baker's first read should be Jarvis, because the optimum spot to hit him on his route develops the fastest. Next read to me would be Odell because after the Jarvis read, OBJ would have time to create any necessary separation. I guess maybe third read is a dump off to Hilliard? Or is that not how it works and you're supposed to use pre-snap reads to determine who to look at first? I guess I'm just trying to figure out if this is a Baker not going through the correct progressions thing of if it's a Kitchens and bad coaching thing. Maybe it's both. Sorry if I have an overly simplistic view on this, I guess I'm just trying to figure out where to assign blame like everyone else.
 
AZ_ said:
Freddie schemed him open, the ball isn't getting to where it needs to be.
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My only critique here is why are we combining a drag with a TE hook?

This pass is not completed because of the congestion of having those route combinations paired.

That can be mitigated by the ball coming out earlier but I'm not sure why Harris isn't running a seam or post here?

Isn't the point of a drag to clear out underneath and allow a slot guy like Landry open field to run in to?

This seems like a route combination that has a pretty low ceiling, given the defender over the TE can see and react to the drag. Just seems bizarre to me if the TE is the 3rd read and he is occupying space on the hash. And if the QB is late, you end up with too many bodies in the throwing window over the middle.

I'm more confused as to why Beckham did not get a target here. Even if Landry is the first read, if Baker is attempting to look off a defender and come back to the drag, he has to have the free reign to just cut the ball loose to OBJ if he breaks open (am I remembering this correctly? that Beckham is the outside receiver to the left?). It's almost like he's looking outside and giving him time to get open, only to snap back and try to rush a throw to Landry.

I'm not sure what has changed with Baker but his eyes are just moving really slow this year. Last year, he had really crisp, quick head movements and decisively made throws in situations like this. He's been a tick slow all year and I really don't understand why this hasn't been corrected by the staff.
 
No idea what’s wrong with Mayfield at this point but I do believe Lindley hasn’t helped much as a QB coach this season.

last year I really do believe Bob Wylie when he said Zampese was the main reason the offense turned it around by doing all the coaching.

Zampese had Baker looking in the right spots and cutting the ball out when he needed to. Sucks he’s gone.
 
Triplethreat said:
No idea what’s wrong with Mayfield at this point but I do believe Lindley hasn’t helped much as a QB coach this season.

last year I really do believe Bob Wylie when he said Zampese was the main reason the offense turned it around by doing all the coaching.

Zampese had Baker looking in the right spots and cutting the ball out when he needed to. Sucks he’s gone.
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Its gonna be whatever you need it to be in that week.
 
Triplethreat said:
No idea what’s wrong with Mayfield at this point but I do believe Lindley hasn’t helped much as a QB coach this season.

last year I really do believe Bob Wylie when he said Zampese was the main reason the offense turned it around by doing all the coaching.

Zampese had Baker looking in the right spots and cutting the ball out when he needed to. Sucks he’s gone.
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Zampese out there playing Baker like a video game last year.
 
If Zampese was as big of a deal as Bob Wylie (and only Bob Wylie) claimed, don't you think Baker would've fought to keep him around or anyone, literally anyone within the team, would've caught on that he was the Magic Man? Or maybe another NFL team would've found a role for him in 2019 season?
 
I'mWithDan said:
My only critique here is why are we combining a drag with a TE hook?

This pass is not completed because of the congestion of having those route combinations paired.

That can be mitigated by the ball coming out earlier but I'm not sure why Harris isn't running a seam or post here?

Isn't the point of a drag to clear out underneath and allow a slot guy like Landry open field to run in to?

This seems like a route combination that has a pretty low ceiling, given the defender over the TE can see and react to the drag. Just seems bizarre to me if the TE is the 3rd read and he is occupying space on the hash. And if the QB is late, you end up with too many bodies in the throwing window over the middle.

I'm more confused as to why Beckham did not get a target here. Even if Landry is the first read, if Baker is attempting to look off a defender and come back to the drag, he has to have the free reign to just cut the ball loose to OBJ if he breaks open (am I remembering this correctly? that Beckham is the outside receiver to the left?). It's almost like he's looking outside and giving him time to get open, only to snap back and try to rush a throw to Landry.

I'm not sure what has changed with Baker but his eyes are just moving really slow this year. Last year, he had really crisp, quick head movements and decisively made throws in situations like this. He's been a tick slow all year and I really don't understand why this hasn't been corrected by the staff.
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I agree with all this.

In addition, as the play unfolded I would have rather had the ball quickly passed out to Hilliard in the flat for a 1v1 with the Broncos 4th CB (Sensabaugh #37) and all the other DB's backs turned.

And of course I'd rather have Chubb in for that 1v1.
9502017.png
 
Urban said:
If Zampese was as big of a deal as Bob Wylie (and only Bob Wylie) claimed, don't you think Baker would've fought to keep him around or anyone, literally anyone within the team, would've caught on that he was the Magic Man? Or maybe another NFL team would've found a role for him in 2019 season?
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Yeah, I don't buy it that it was Zampese.

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Off season workouts, lack of faith in his offensive line, lack of work with his offense, a couple of nagging injuries, and other chaotic things happening around him. Also, not to mention, he's getting no help from his playcalling or coaching staff.

Also...he is only in his 2nd year in the league. It wasn't unreasonable to see him regress. This team probably still needed another year, and the OBJ trade gave the team some unreasonable expectations.

I wonder with everything that happened in the offseason, if given another chance before even one game was played, if Dorsey would have hired a more experienced coach to get this thing going? Freddie was risky with a young team, but with this type of locker room and expectations, it's not a shock to see him crumble under the weight of expectations.
 
To the Mayfield truthers what other option is there at this point?

To me it's pretty obvious that the team spits out QB's and pretty much kills them off

I'm legit trying to figure out a QB that if you put him on the 1999-pres. Browns? He'd be have succeeded for a long period of time. Maybe that sex offender from Findlay? About the only one I can think of.
 
Urban said:
If Zampese was as big of a deal as Bob Wylie (and only Bob Wylie) claimed, don't you think Baker would've fought to keep him around or anyone, literally anyone within the team, would've caught on that he was the Magic Man? Or maybe another NFL team would've found a role for him in 2019 season?
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I just don’t know why the fuck Wylie would say that shit.

Zampese coached Baker well last year and it doesn’t seem to me he is getting that level of coaching with Lindley.

Wasn’t Zampese the QB coach in Cincinnati when Dalton was killing it as well?
 
SuperSurge said:
I agree with all this.

In addition, as the play unfolded I would have rather had the ball quickly passed out to Hilliard in the flat for a 1v1 with the Broncos 4th CB (Sensabaugh #37) and all the other DB's backs turned.

And of course I'd rather have Chubb in for that 1v1.
9502017.png
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well at least this picture destroys the myth that OBJ was open.

Though i disagree about Hillard being a good target, I have no faith in him to avoid that tackler. If it was Chubb i think its a different story. That said i definitely think either Landry or the TE screwed up their route. There is no reason they should both be in the same spot at the same time like this. Especially as I would guess looking at this, it was ultimeately the TE's defender that broke the play up. Just a hunch being as the guy covering landry appears to be not only almost 3 yards from him at this point, but going the wrong direction.
 
bob2the2nd said:
well at least this picture destroys the myth that OBJ was open.

Though i disagree about Hillard being a good target, I have no faith in him to avoid that tackler. If it was Chubb i think its a different story. That said i definitely think either Landry or the TE screwed up their route. There is no reason they should both be in the same spot at the same time like this. Especially as I would guess looking at this, it was ultimeately the TE's defender that broke the play up. Just a hunch being as the guy covering landry appears to be not only almost 3 yards from him at this point, but going the wrong direction.
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I most definitely would have Chubb on the field at all times unless he needs a breather. Not scheduled 3rd downs and/or crucial plays in the game.
 
Triplethreat said:
I just don’t know why the fuck Wylie would say that shit.

Zampese coached Baker well last year and it doesn’t seem to me he is getting that level of coaching with Lindley.

Wasn’t Zampese the QB coach in Cincinnati when Dalton was killing it as well?
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Maybe he didn't like Kitchens getting credit (or flat out didn't like Kitchens) for all of the Browns success down the stretch, in particular the much improved play from Wylie's OL unit. IIRC, Wylie found out via his daughter, and not the team, that he'd been let go- which is a bad look for the Browns if true.

Baker had as many bad/mediocre games as he did good games while Hue was the HC. Zampese's role, on paper, didn't change when Hue was let go.

In Cincinnati, at the Bengals "peak" offense, Hue was OC and Zampese was the QB Coach. When Hue came to Cleveland, Zampese was promoted to OC and the Bengals offense was terrible; he was fired a few games into his 2nd season.
 
bob2the2nd said:
well at least this picture destroys the myth that OBJ was open.

Though i disagree about Hillard being a good target, I have no faith in him to avoid that tackler. If it was Chubb i think its a different story. That said i definitely think either Landry or the TE screwed up their route. There is no reason they should both be in the same spot at the same time like this. Especially as I would guess looking at this, it was ultimeately the TE's defender that broke the play up. Just a hunch being as the guy covering landry appears to be not only almost 3 yards from him at this point, but going the wrong direction.
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Beckham was 1000% open. With that said, that's a risky throw to take on 4th and 4. With the way Baker is playing right now, I don't have much confidence in him placing that ball where it needs to be....But OBJ is the type of player who can make something out of a less than perfectly placed ball...
 
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