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The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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I doubt he's gaining much trade value but he is making a case to at least get an extended shot (at least as extended as they can be this year). With no minor league season to go rake in, I just don't see some summer camp ABs really altering other teams scouting reports on him. I'd take his 'potential' here in a trial over whatever small trade value he has.

With no ability for teams to scout these games, the belief that trade value is contingent on the performance of these squad games is pretty speculative, to me.

But he would have a chance at platooning with Hernandez if they actually believe in him. But we all know it will be a struggle for Tito to pull a veteran like Hernandez from the top of the lineup.
 
With no ability for teams to scout these games, the belief that trade value is contingent on the performance of these squad games is pretty speculative, to me.

But he would have a chance at platooning with Hernandez if they actually believe in him. But we all know it will be a struggle for Tito to pull a veteran like Hernandez from the top of the lineup.

I know you missed me the most! How was your vacation?

Honestly all teams would be in the same boat at the moment with the ability to scout so in due time i am curious if this would have any effect at the trade deadline.

Hernandez has fairly good splits, so i don't see why he would be platooned with someone else, but we don't know the plan yet for rest days as well. Chang I think has made the roster at least as the utility guy it seems. Next year is when he will get a chance to shine.
 
Tito says Frankie will probably hit 3rd this year and that the four infielders will hit 1-4. Speculation is Hernandez leads off.

I'm not sure that's a great idea. Last year his overall OBP was .333. As a leadoff hitter it was .322 and when he led off an inning his OBP was .317. My preference would be Santana and his .397 OBP last year. Carlos takes a lot of pitches and would allow the next hitters to get a look at what the pitcher is throwing. He would be on base a lot with Lindor, Hosey and Reyes coming up. With Santana on first base and a RHP on the hill it opens up a hole on the right side for Hosey and Lindor. The only downside is that Carlos is the slowest base runner on the team.

Hernandez, who is 30 years old, seems to be a player in decline. Looking at his numbers for 2017, 2018, and 2019, courtesy of Fangraphs, we see this:

Offensvie rating: 9.0, -0.6, -5.5
On-base percentage: .373, .356, .333
wRC+: 111, 99, 92
BB%: 10.6, 13.4, 6.7 (His walk percentage declined by 50% last year)
Speed: 6.0, 5.0, 4.5 (He's slowing down. His stolen bases dropped from 19 to 9 last year)
wOBA: .346, .320, .315
Infield fly ball percentage: 3.1, 4.8, 12.9 (His pop-ups have more than quadrupled over the last two years)
Hard hit%: 22.1, 24.0, 32.9 (This doesn't fit. He's hitting more balls hard but it isn't reflected in his production)
Fastball pitch values: 19.1, 13.1 -9.3 (His ability to hit a fastball has declined dramatically the last two years. Is his bat slowing down? However, his production against curves and sliders is up. Is he sitting on breakng balls, figuring he can't get around on the fastball anymore?)
Swing percentage outside the zone: 21.6, 20.3, 29.8 (He definitely chased a lot last year. His chase percentage was up nearly 50%. What's up with that)

Tito made a reference to Cesar's 2019 season, calling it "a bit of an aberration". I wonder if he knows something. Clearly Hernandez was pressing last year. He chased a lot more bad pitches and his infield pop-up rate skyrocketed. He's not as fast as he was and he can no longer punish a fastball. In terms of overall offensive rating and wRC+, he's a below average offensive player. His on-base percentages are trending down.

Do we really want a below average offensive player who doesn't run particularly well or get on base that well leading off? Do we want Hernandez coming to the plate more than Hosey, Lindor, Santana, and Reyes? I'm also concerned about his three-year trend line. What if this year follows the trend?

If Hernandez can get back to being patient at the plate, reduce his bad swings, and stop trying to hit home runs he may be able to get back to the player he was in 2017 when his on-base percentage was .373. In that case he'll be more than fine as a leadoff hitter. With Hosey, Frankie, Reyes, both Santanas, Berto, and Mercado in the lineup we don't need Hernandez to hit home runs. The last two years he hit 15 and 14 after never hitting more than 6 in a season. All those additional infield pop-ups suggest to me that he may have tried to change his launch angle to become a home run hitter as he moves into his 30's and is losing a step. Maybe if he gets back to being a patient hitter who works the count, has a walk rate of 10-13%, and just tries to get on base he'll be fine.

Edit: Another theory is that by trying to drive the ball more he lengthened his swing which explains why his ability to hit fastballs has declined. Maybe it's not his bat speed that's declining, maybe he just joined the launch angle revolution and is trying to drive the ball in the air. It's not working. His ground ball percentage is up, his fly ball percentage is down, and his pop-up percentage is through the roof.
 
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Tito says Frankie will probably hit 3rd this year and that the four infielders will hit 1-4. Speculation is Hernandez leads off.

I'm not sure that's a great idea. Last year his overall OBP was .333. As a leadoff hitter it was .322 and when he led off an inning his OBP was .317. My preference would be Santana and his .397 OBP last year. Carlos takes a lot of pitches and would allow the next hitters to get a look at what the pitcher is throwing. He would be on base a lot with Lindor, Hosey and Reyes coming up. With Santana on first base and a RHP on the hill it opens up a hole on the right side for Hosey and Lindor. The only downside is that Carlos is the slowest base runner on the team.

Hernandez, who is 30 years old, seems to be a player in decline. Looking at his numbers for 2017, 2018, and 2019, courtesy of Fangraphs, we see this:

Offensvie rating: 9.0, -0.6, -5.5
On-base percentage: .373, .356, .333
wRC+: 111, 99, 92
BB%: 10.6, 13.4, 6.7 (His walk percentage declined by 50% last year)
Speed: 6.0, 5.0, 4.5 (He's slowing down. His stolen bases dropped from 19 to 9 last year)
wOBA: .346, .320, .315
Infield fly ball percentage: 3.1, 4.8, 12.9 (His pop-ups have more than quadrupled over the last two years)
Hard hit%: 22.1, 24.0, 32.9 (This doesn't fit. He's hitting more balls hard but it isn't reflected in his production)
Fastball pitch values: 19.1, 13.1 -9.3 (His ability to hit a fastball has declined dramatically the last two years. Is his bat slowing down? However, his production against curves and sliders is up. Is he sitting on breakng balls, figuring he can't get around on the fastball anymore?)
Swing percentage outside the zone: 21.6, 20.3, 29.8 (He definitely chased a lot last year. His chase percentage was up nearly 50%. What's up with that)

Tito made a reference to Cesar's 2019 season, calling it "a bit of an aberration". I wonder if he knows something. Clearly Hernandez was pressing last year. He chased a lot more bad pitches and his infield pop-up rate skyrocketed. He's not as fast as he was and he can no longer punish a fastball. In terms of overall offensive rating and wRC+, he's a below average offensive player. His on-base percentages are trending down.

Do we really want a below average offensive player who doesn't run particularly well or get on base that well leading off? Do we want Hernandez coming to the plate more than Hosey, Lindor, Santana, and Reyes? I'm also concerned about his three-year trend line. What if this year follows the trend?

If Hernandez can get back to being patient at the plate, reduce his bad swings, and stop trying to hit home runs he may be able to get back to the player he was in 2017 when his on-base percentage was .373. In that case he'll be more than fine as a leadoff hitter. With Hosey, Frankie, Reyes, both Santanas, Berto, and Mercado in the lineup we don't need Hernandez to hit home runs. The last two years he hit 15 and 14 after never hitting more than 6 in a season. All those additional infield pop-ups suggest to me that he may have tried to change his launch angle to become a home run hitter as he moves into his 30's and is losing a step. Maybe if he gets back to being a patient hitter who works the count, has a walk rate of 10-13%, and just tries to get on base he'll be fine.

Edit: Another theory is that by trying to drive the ball more he lengthened his swing which explains why his ability to hit fastballs has declined. Maybe it's not his bat speed that's declining, maybe he just joined the launch angle revolution and is trying to drive the ball in the air. It's not working. His ground ball percentage is up, his fly ball percentage is down, and his pop-up percentage is through the roof.

He sounds a lot more like a 9 hitter than a leadoff hitter. Maybe Tito knows something we don't. I hope so because the guy who's been leading off for you for years.....is still on the team.....and he doesn't suck at it.
 
I feel like we've discussed this ad nauseam.

Glad to see Tito is moving Lindor out of the lead off spot and Hernandez is the most logical replacement.

I'm not sure if everyone was on the forums when we did discuss it in length, but the first four will be Hernandez, Ramirez, Lindor and Santana in some type of order. You could make a bunch of different reasons why x or y should be in the leadoff spot.
 
So now to discuss Lindor and his xwOBA in the 47th percentile last year, putting him in the lower end of average category. In 2018 Frankie ranked in the 91st percentile in xwOBA, and in 2017 he was in the 84th percentile. Clearly, he had a horrible season at the plate last year; well off his established norm near the top of the league.

In terms of WAR, he dropped from 7.9 to 4.7. If you prefer FanGraphs numbers, he dropped from 7.6 to 4.4, which was his lowest WAR in four years.

What the heck happened? His OPS dropped only slightly, from .871 in 2018 to .854. His wRC+ dropped from 130 to 114. By this measure he was 14% above average. Apparently his actual results were better than his expected results as measured by his xwOBA.

One thing I noticed is that Frankie’s OPS in September was only .705 on a batting average of .218. In July and August his OPS was well over .900 both months, suggesting he ran out of gas. On the rare days where Tito gave Frankie a day off in the field and let him DH, Frankie went 10-for-22 with an OPS of 1.342. I’d suggest letting him DH more frequently if he’s on the team in 2021. Small sample to be sure, but he hit like a MF’er when they gave him a day off his feet and it will keep him fresher in September.

However, he was a different hitter last year from 2018. His walk rate dropped from 9.4% to 7.0%. His percentage of swings at pitches outside the zone rose 3.2%. His ground ball percentage increased by almost 5%. His infield fly ball percentage increased 3.1%. That’s 8% more ground balls and pop-ups than the year before. His fly ball percentage, where most damage is done, dropped 3%. His line drive percentage was down nearly 2%.

Lindor’s pull percentage was up 4.2% over 2018. The numbers are painting a picture of a batter who chased more bad pitches, walked less, pulled the ball more, and put more balls on the ground and in the air over the infield than in previous years. His xwOBA plummeted from the 91st percentile to the 47th.

He was at his worst in the most important at-bats, hitting .202 with RISP and an unbelievable .167 with RISP and two out. As a result his RBI’s dropped from 92 to 74. My strongest memories of Frankie last year were solo home runs and striking out chasing breaking balls in the dirt with men on base.

His fielding also tanked. His UZR/150 dropped from 13.4 to 7.4, a decrease of 45%. I don’t know what was going on there. Lindor was slower, for one thing. His speed ranked in the 82nd percentile in 2018 but was down to 65th last year. His base running grade also decreased.

FanGraphs gave him an offensive/base running rating of 28.2 in 2018, which fell off the table to 9.9 last year. Both FanGraphs and Statcast agree that his offensive game declined drastically last year. Defensively FanGraphs had him dropping from 21.1 to 12.1, obviously linked to his decline in range. For some reason he was slower on the bases and less rangy in the field last year. I wonder if the ankle injury suffered just before spring training that caused him to miss the first couple weeks of the season affected him the entire year.

As for the hitting part of it, he was fine in the middle and sucked at the beginning and end. In 37 at-bats in April he hit .243, probably rusty having missed spring training. In September he hit .218/.705. In the four months starting in May his OPS’s were .864, .866, .938, and .928.

So unlike last year he should be healthy and ready to go when the season starts and he won’t run out of gas in September. He still needs to stop chasing breaking balls out of the zone and be more patient with men on base. He needs to hit more line drives and reduce the ground balls and pop-ups. He needs to be more willing to take a walk and not get over-aggressive with men on base.

He has better teammates this year and doesn’t have to make up for lack of offense by guys like Martin, CarGo, Kipnis, and Bauers along with an extended slump by Hosey. I think he tried to carry the team a bit last year, especially in the first half when he and Santana were the only reliable bats. I’m also guessing he was trying to hit 40 home runs after hitting 38 the year before, which contributed to the increase in pulled balls, pop-ups, and swings outside the zone.

But with the heightened importance of every game this year I wonder if he’ll be able to find the patience to let the game come to him.
Just in watching most of the games last season I thought Lindor seemed undisciplined at the plate compared to his own recent past. I was not sure if it was lack of patience, or lack of ability to identify pitches, but he was slow to make adjustments...his early season injury is what I chalked up to his more human level defending. He is still the finest Indian of my lifetime, but it was not a season that met his standard or ability.
 
I'm not sure if everyone was on the forums when we did discuss it in length, but the first four will be Hernandez, Ramirez, Lindor and Santana in some type of order. You could make a bunch of different reasons why x or y should be in the leadoff spot.
I'd find this ideal...but I'd still not be shocked to see Ramirez hitting 5th. Love you Tito, but...
 
With no ability for teams to scout these games, the belief that trade value is contingent on the performance of these squad games is pretty speculative, to me.

But he would have a chance at platooning with Hernandez if they actually believe in him. But we all know it will be a struggle for Tito to pull a veteran like Hernandez from the top of the lineup.

Agree as to YCC trade value, or lack thereof

If Hernandez plays close to standard there is no reason to platoon him, or mess around much with that slot. Hernandez is probably etched in stone for 29 of the first 30 games...I'm hoping for that.
 
Agree as to YCC trade value, or lack thereof

If Hernandez plays close to standard there is no reason to platoon him, or mess around much with that slot. Hernandez is probably etched in stone for 29 of the first 30 games...I'm hoping for that.

We're all definitely hoping for that, but given his recent regression, and a manager who hopefully assesses that he can't stick around with under-performing players in a shortened season, at least gives YCC a chance to crack the lineup.

I'm definitely not making that prediction, but there has to be some percentage chance of it.
 
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Hernandez
Jose
Lindor
Santana
Reyes
Santana
Naquin
Mercado
Perez

I think i'd almost rather see Mercado hit 2 and have Jose hit 5. There's a lot of RH hitters after the 4 hole if your 4 switch hitters bat 1-4.
 
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Hernandez Hernandez
Jose Mercado
Lindor Lindor
Santana Santana
Reyes Jose
Santana Reyes
Naquin Santana
Mercado Naquin
Perez Perez

I think i'd almost rather see Mercado hit 2 and have Jose hit 5. There's a lot of RH hitters after the 4 hole if your 4 switch hitters bat 1-4.
Jordan Luplow is looking at this, and he is perplexed.
 
Santana's run production in the middle of the order.. is too valuable.. at the same time, his ability to get on base says lead off.. Perhaps there's another name that can be considered.. but only against off handed pitchers: Jordan Luplow.. His .320/.439/1.181 triple slash v LHP's is about as good as it gets on the Indians. Add to the fact that against LHP's as a starter, he'd almost guarantee two AB's before the opposing manager would be able to bring in a RHP.. This type of micro-managed exploitation of a players ability will be much more important in the sprint that should be the 2020 season?

Santana can lead off against RHP's.. This works very well as Carlos is vastly more patient against RHP's than LHP's... That is, he derives a much greater portion of his BB's by an almost 2:1 margin versys RHP's thereby allowing the hitters coming behind him to see more/most of any pitcher's arsenal for that day?

Thoughts?..

Thoughts?
 

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