2020 Series 3 | Indians @ Twins | July 30-31 & August 1-2

This rotation is out for fucking blood. Buckle up because our pitching staff is going to take us for a long, fruitful run.

bigfoot5415 said:

Any chance we continue to roll out the 6 man rotation?

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We wont be to be honest. Plutko only started because of the double header. Now if a pitcher needs an extra day or is having a bad start, Plutko will sub in and be a spot starter/long reliever. Which as of right now we havent even needed but in due time its bound to happen. Who knows Plutko may get a few three inning saves at this rate

Who is the announcer for the Indians that played for the Twins?

Lee said:

Who is the announcer for the Indians that played for the Twins?

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AJ Pierzynski

Lord Mar said:

AJ Pierzynski

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I like him, he is knowledgeable, but adds interesting things......Good player too, now that i know who it is.

Aah, the glory of very small sample sizes.

Karinchak is the new all star closer. Hand is delegated to the scrap heap. Frankie was over rated, until he wasnt. Domingo was a beast until he wasnt. The Twins offense is invincible, until it isnt.

Screw the track records. What have you done lately is the only thing that counts.

But the old adages remain.

Good pitching beats good hitting, and we have the pitching. Frankie and JRam are among the best in baseball...and Los ain't too shabby, either.

In spite of much hand wringing, the Tribe is (still) a very good baseball team. If it stays healthy, which it didnt last year, it will make a lot of noise.

CATS44 said:

Aah, the glory of very small sample sizes.

Karinchak is the new all star closer. Hand is delegated to the scrap heap. Frankie was over rated, until he wasnt. Domingo was a beast until he wasnt. The Twins offense is invincible, until it isnt.

Screw the track records. What have you done lately is the only thing that counts.

But the old adages remain.

Good pitching beats good hitting, and we have the pitching. Frankie and JRam are among the best in baseball...and Los ain't too shabby, either.

In spite of much hand wringing, the Tribe is (still) a very good baseball team. If it stays healthy, which it didnt last year, it will make a lot of noise.

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I think there's something to Hand's ineffectiveness. He's not the same pitcher he was a few years ago. His slider movement has dropped significantly over the past three years, and his fastball velocity has fallen as well.

Of course, fans are high on Karinchak right now because he had a good outing. But he's never going to be consistent--he might very well walk the bases loaded next time he toes the mound.

I agree that we have a talented squad, but there is always room for concern and improvement.

Small sample size doesn’t apply to concern over Hand. He’s been pretty terrible since last June/July. That doesn’t mean that Karinchak is our new closer, but everyone has to be worried about Hand.

CATS44 said:

Aah, the glory of very small sample sizes.

Karinchak is the new all star closer. Hand is delegated to the scrap heap. Frankie was over rated, until he wasnt. Domingo was a beast until he wasnt. The Twins offense is invincible, until it isnt.

Screw the track records. What have you done lately is the only thing that counts.

But the old adages remain.

Good pitching beats good hitting, and we have the pitching. Frankie and JRam are among the best in baseball...and Los ain't too shabby, either.

In spite of much hand wringing, the Tribe is (still) a very good baseball team. If it stays healthy, which it didnt last year, it will make a lot of noise.

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How true Cats. I will say that in a truncated 60-game season, you should ride the hot hands to the fullest possible extent rather than rely on proven track records built over several seasons. If the Tribe relied on Jose‘s track record over his first 60 games last season, it would lock in a black hole in the middle of the lineup. I am following this axiom in my fantasy leagues this season. I am playing and picking up the hot players and dropping many players off to a cold start simply because there are not enough games left in the season for me to be more patient. We’ll see how this strategy plays out.

Karinchak's line is 4.0 innings, 0 hits, 0 runs, 2 walks, 5 K's. So far the predictions that he'll blow hot and cold, walk a lot of batters, strike out a lot, and walk the tightrope in many appearances is not holding water. He hasn't been getting himself into jams with wildness. He hasn't been falling behind in counts. He's just been a very good relief pitcher who forces a lot of weak contact.

The Twins were the highest scoring team in baseball last year and coming into last night they led the majors in runs per game. Karinchak came in to face the top of their order with a two-run lead. You might expect a rookie to nibble in this situation but he went right at them. Six pitches and he was out of the inning with not a single ball being called. He never gave Nelson Cruz a chance to tie the game.

It seems like on this board fans expect pitchers to do whatever they did in the minors. Civale won't miss enough bats to be that successful because he didn't strike out that many in the minors. Karinchak will struggle with walks because he walked some guys in the minors. This organization has the best pitcher development program in baseball. They fix mechanical problems and make these guys better. Look at Clevinger, who we got for a washed up Vinnie Pestano, and Bieber, who was a 4th round pick.

At what point do you look at the pitcher that is in front of you now and say, "This is who he is" instead of "No way he can keep this up"?

In Beiber's one full season in the minors he averaged 8.4 K's per 9 innings. Last year it was 10.9 and this year he's blowing that number out of the water. Maybe this is who he really is. It's very early, but maybe this is who Karinchak really is.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

Karinchak's line is 4.0 innings, 0 hits, 0 runs, 2 walks, 5 K's. So far the predictions that he'll blow hot and cold, walk a lot of batters, strike out a lot, and walk the tightrope in many appearances is not holding water. He hasn't been getting himself into jams with wildness. He hasn't been falling behind in counts. He's just been a very good relief pitcher who forces a lot of weak contact.

The Twins were the highest scoring team in baseball last year and coming into last night they led the majors in runs per game. Karinchak came in to face the top of their order with a two-run lead. You might expect a rookie to nibble in this situation but he went right at them. Six pitches and he was out of the inning with not a single ball being called. He never gave Nelson Cruz a chance to tie the game.

It seems like on this board fans expect pitchers to do whatever they did in the minors. Civale won't miss enough bats to be that successful because he didn't strike out that many in the minors. Karinchak will struggle with walks because he walked some guys in the minors. This organization has the best pitcher development program in baseball. They fix mechanical problems and make these guys better. Look at Clevinger, who we got for a washed up Vinnie Pestano, and Bieber, who was a 4th round pick.

At what point do you look at the pitcher that is in front of you now and say, "This is who he is" instead of "No way he can keep this up"?

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I think we are looking at the pitcher in front of us and saying "This is who he is."

The difference is--that analysis is being made based off years of track record, as well as a look at what he's actually doing currently. Things like velocity, pitch movement, and peripherals, that are good indicators of future success.

To me, all of those things hold more water than basic stats compiled over 4 innings. I wasn't ready to anoint Ryan Merritt a Cy Yong pitcher after his postseason start, because even though the basic stats show he shut out one of the best lineups in baseball in one of the biggest games of the year, anyone with eyes could see that he likely wasn't good enough to be consistently successful at the MLB level.

Out of the Rafters at the Q said:

I think we are looking at the pitcher in front of us and saying "This is who he is."

The difference is--that analysis is being made based off years of track record, as well as a look at what he's actually doing currently. Things like velocity, pitch movement, and peripherals, that are good indicators of future success.

To me, all of those things hold more water than basic stats compiled over 4 innings. I wasn't ready to anoint Ryan Merritt a Cy Yong pitcher after his postseason start, because even though the basic stats show he shut out one of the best lineups in baseball in one of the biggest games of the year, anyone with eyes could see that he likely wasn't good enough to be consistently successful at the MLB level.

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You could be right, of course, but in 9.1 major league innings Karinchak has walked 3 batters. Small sample, but very encouraging. Maybe somebody worked with him and improved his command. Or maybe he goes back to being a guy who walks 5-6 per nine.

He only threw six pitches last night so I'm sure we'll see him again this series, maybe even twice.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

You could be right, of course, but in 9.1 major league innings Karinchak has walked 3 batters. Small sample, but very encouraging. Maybe somebody worked with him and improved his command. Or maybe he goes back to being a guy who walks 5-6 per nine.

He only threw six pitches last night so I'm sure we'll see him again this series, maybe even twice.

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So, if a pitcher averages 5 walks per 9 innings... and then in his most recent 9 innings, he walks 3 batters... you immediately think that he's changed and is likely to continue to be a guy who averages only 3 walks per 9 from here on out?

That doesn't seem rational.

@jup broke down Karinchak's delivery and why his body positioning will likely lead to inconsistent control. Have you seen something to indicate Karinchak has made significant changes to improve his control and consistency, or are you really just looking at 9 innings' of work?

Bieber's command last night is exactly why the Indians draft pitchers the way they do.

Probably the best performance by an Indians pitcher since Kluber tossed that 80+ pitch shutout against the Rays (?) a few years ago.

The curve is giving hitters nightmares, had Donaldson talking to himself. Made multiple people fall down.


That was pitching pornography at a EAYOR level.

AZ_ said:

Bieber's command last night is exactly why the Indians draft pitchers the way they do.

Probably the best performance by an Indians pitcher since Kluber tossed that 80+ pitch shutout against the Rays (?) a few years ago.

The curve is giving hitters nightmares, had Donaldson talking to himself. Made multiple people fall down.


That was pitching pornography at a EAYOR level.

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I love it because we get to see all these guys who are PITCHERS first--like Bieber and Civale, but the guys who are THROWERS first like Karinchak are having success as well.

I've always been a guy who appreciates someone who succeeds at his craft because of his ability to pitch rather than his arm talent and just ability to throw. Bieber is putting on a clinic, and the way he crosses up batters is absolutely a joy to watch.