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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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I think we overly criticize because we know what he is capable of, especially when he is in rhythm. My main issue with Baker is that he still seems to second guess the big play throws with the double tucking and roll out crap he does. He didn't do that as much his rookie year, which tells me it's a mental thing.

I can't stress enough how much last year really hindered his development, more mentally than physically, IMO.
 
Kbiz said:
I think we overly criticize because we know what he is capable of, especially when he is in rhythm. My main issue with Baker is that he still seems to second guess the big play throws with the double tucking and roll out crap he does. He didn't do that as much his rookie year, which tells me it's a mental thing.

I can't stress enough how much last year really hindered his development, more mentally than physically, IMO.
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In 2018, he was told to take chances, throw, and that INT's weren't the end of the world, but rather part of the development of a young QB. This year, he's being told not to have negative plays, and to cut down on the INT's.

So, it's no wonder he looks like he's second guessing himself out there, because he probably is.
 
Kbiz said:
I think we overly criticize because we know what he is capable of, especially when he is in rhythm. My main issue with Baker is that he still seems to second guess the big play throws with the double tucking and roll out crap he does. He didn't do that as much his rookie year, which tells me it's a mental thing.
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I could be wrong about this, but what I'm seeing this year is that he's trying to balance his aggressive nature with not self-imploding. We saw that INT against the Bengals - the cornerback (not safety) made such a weird but great play at the ball. I don't think Baker expected the weak-side CB to be in that vicinity. And that play basically let Cinci back into the game. It seems like he's trying to figure out a nice balance this year - how to increase leads and be aggressive while not shooting ourselves in the foot.

Contrast that with last year where it seemed like his second guessing was based solely on indecision and confusion on how to attack the defense, and it feels like THIS year's version of double tucking isn't as detrimental. Just my thoughts.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
In 2018, he was told to take chances, throw, and that INT's weren't the end of the world, but rather part of the development of a young QB. This year, he's being told not to have negative plays, and to cut down on the INT's.

So, it's no wonder he looks like he's second guessing himself out there, because he probably is.
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Vee-Rex said:
I could be wrong about this, but what I'm seeing this year is that he's trying to balance his aggressive nature with not self-imploding. We saw that INT against the Bengals - the cornerback (not safety) made such a weird but great play at the ball. I don't think Baker expected the weak-side CB to be in that vicinity. And that play basically let Cinci back into the game. It seems like he's trying to figure out a nice balance this year - how to increase leads and be aggressive while not shooting ourselves in the foot.

Contrast that with last year where it seemed like his second guessing was based solely on indecision and confusion on how to attack the defense, and it feels like THIS year's version of double tucking isn't as detrimental. Just my thoughts.
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I get both points and they certainly make sense this year while he learns a new offense. My only worry is that he is going to have to win some games with his arm this year and I hope he has the confidence to make the throw - I've seen plenty of tape from games this year where he seemingly has an open guy, looks at him, and either looks away or mistimes the throw after double-pumping.

It is important to cut down on turnovers but I also don't want to neuter that gun slinger confidence. It is what made him a #1 pick. His accuracy and timing on deep balls is pretty uncanny when he lets it loose.
 
Kbiz said:
I get both points and they certainly make sense this year while he learns a new offense. My only worry is that he is going to have to win some games with his arm this year and I hope he has the confidence to make the throw - I've seen plenty of tape from games this year where he seemingly has an open guy, looks at him, and either looks away or mistimes the throw after double-pumping.

It is important to cut down on turnovers but I also don't want to neuter that gun slinger confidence. It is what made him a #1 pick. His accuracy and timing on deep balls is pretty uncanny when he lets it loose.
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Yeah, I feel this. If it makes you feel any better Kevski was encouraging him to trust his eyeballs and be himself before the Bengals game:

 
Kbiz said:
I get both points and they certainly make sense this year while he learns a new offense. My only worry is that he is going to have to win some games with his arm this year and I hope he has the confidence to make the throw - I've seen plenty of tape from games this year where he seemingly has an open guy, looks at him, and either looks away or mistimes the throw after double-pumping.

It is important to cut down on turnovers but I also don't want to neuter that gun slinger confidence. It is what made him a #1 pick. His accuracy and timing on deep balls is pretty uncanny when he lets it loose.
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Herein lies the issue that will define Baker’s career IMO. We saw some defenses make the adjustment last year after being successful down-the-field his rookie year. Until he proves that he can make teams pay consistently on the short and intermediate routes, teams will keep help over the top and make him beat them by competing a high percentage of passes without making bad decisions.

The running game has allowed them to be really conservative in general with the passing game, but that won’t be the case all year (potentially starting this week). It will be interesting to see how he responds this season when the game is on his shoulders and he has to make plays for the team to win. Didn’t look so good against the Ravens, but I’m not going to solely judge him off that one game.
 
Vee-Rex said:
I think his point is that the 'critical moments' in an NFL game has a wide net. You have a laser focus on one play while the Browns were up 41-30 and momentum was against us. Sure, that's a critical moment, but there are 432098243 other moments we can label the same way.

What about the big conversion to OBJ at the end of the 1st quarter to get us in the red zone while we were down 7-14?

What about the 3rd and 6th conversion to Landry to get us at the goal line while we were down 7-14? Then followed up on the very next play with a TD pass to OBJ? We avoided a field goal and scored on Mayfield throws to tie the game when Dallas had 14 unanswered and momentum.

How about the 3rd and 10 conversion to Landry while we were up 21-14? Rather than kick a field goal (which could be missed), it led to a Kareem Hunt TD on the goal line. Is that not a critical moment, putting the foot down on the neck of the opponent when given the opportunity?

How about all the first down passes before the end of the 1st half that gave us 3 points?

Were those not critical moments? What's the narrative if he misses Landry on those first downs, misses OBJ on some of the first downs he had? Or even worse, throw picks in those situations? "ThEsE aRe CrItIcAl MoMeNtS tO aSsErT cOnTrOl Of ThE gAmE aNd He FaiLed!!!"

Thing is, you're not wrong about wanting to see Mayfield connect with OBJ on that pass. We all do. We want improvement, and Mayfield hasn't convinced anyone that he has done enough so far. You just need to come to accept that passes like that will happen in just about every game and trying to enhance your position by labeling it a 'critical moment' is not doing you any favors.
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I think we have come to a critical moment in this discussion.
 
Kbiz said:
My only worry is that he is going to have to win some games with his arm this year and I hope he has the confidence to make the throw - I've seen plenty of tape from games this year where he seemingly has an open guy, looks at him, and either looks away or mistimes the throw after double-pumping.

It is important to cut down on turnovers but I also don't want to neuter that gun slinger confidence. It is what made him a #1 pick. His accuracy and timing on deep balls is pretty uncanny when he lets it loose.
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That's going to be the tough part. The "he's throwing too many INT's and that has to stop" mantra was getting really strong, and he's compensated by becoming much more cautious. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens next time we get behind and must comeback through the air.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
That's going to be the tough part. The "he's throwing too many INT's and that has to stop" mantra was getting really strong, and he's compensated by becoming much more cautious. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens next time we get behind and must comeback through the air.
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Lord knows we have the tools. Put Landry and OBJ in a pass happy offense and their stats would be stupid.

Maybe I am just being selfish but we have ELITE talent at skill positions across the board.
 
Vee-Rex said:
Yeah, I feel this. If it makes you feel any better Kevski was encouraging him to trust his eyeballs and be himself before the Bengals game:

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Ive always laughed at coach speak. "Lets go", "Dont be scared", "Be you". As a former collegiate player, Ive always said "no sh*t" to myself.
 
Kbiz said:
Lord knows we have the tools. Put Landry and OBJ in a pass happy offense and their stats would be stupid.

Maybe I am just being selfish but we have ELITE talent at skill positions across the board.
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And we've leveraged that elite talent into a 3-1 record. Not sure what the issue is.

I imagine both the offense and defense will grow in complexity over the course of the season as players have time to learn the new systems and get practice reps in. The limited off-season and lack of preseason meant we were always going to head into the season with a more limited playbook.
 
Jack Brickman said:
And we've leveraged that elite talent into a 3-1 record. Not sure what the issue is.

I imagine both the offense and defense will grow in complexity over the course of the season as players have time to learn the new systems and get practice reps in. The limited off-season and lack of preseason meant we were always going to head into the season with a more limited playbook.
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And it's not just the impressive records - the Browns, post week 1, are scoring a fuck ton of points!
 
Cassity14 said:
And it's not just the impressive records - the Browns, post week 1, are scoring a fuck ton of points!
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We also have as many wins as the entire NFC East combined. :chuckle:

Another fun and depressing fact is that the Giants have scored over 100 points less than the Packers through four games.
 
Jack Brickman said:
We also have as many wins as the entire NFC East combined. :chuckle:

Another fun and depressing fact is that the Giants have scored over 100 points less than the Packers through four games.
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But we dont have as many ties as the NFC Least
 
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