ansatsusha80
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I prefer to get our Kevin Love replacement in this upcoming draft and have Nance on the bench.
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Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…
- Thread starter JJ_PR
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I prefer to get our Kevin Love replacement in this upcoming draft and have Nance on the bench.
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The Athletic had this analysis of the trade from the Cavs' perspective:
Perhaps the biggest winner of all on Wednesday was Cleveland, which took a 2022 first-round pick from Milwaukee that is likely to be in the 25-30 range and turned it into a center of the future in Jarrett Allen.
The fine print on this is fascinating: Cleveland had a $3.84 million trade exception from the December 2019 Jordan Clarkson trade that was a month from expiring, and Allen’s $3.91 million contract happened to fit juuuuust under the wire to use it. (A trade exception can be used on a player who makes up to $100,000 more than the exception amount). Had the Rockets dragged their feet a few more weeks on trading Harden, Cleveland would have missed out.
As a result, the Cavs were able to trade Dante Exum for Taurean Prince and still squeeze Allen into the trade. Prince is a negative asset at this point, a decent-enough backup 4 who makes $13 million next season (I never really understood why Brooklyn gave him that extension), but Cleveland’s cap situation is solid enough to handle that contract.
In the short term this further crowds Cleveland’s overpopulated frontcourt, but the Cavs aren’t thinking about the short term here. Allen is only 22 and projects as a top-15 center going forward. The Cavs have enough flexibility below the luxury tax line to pay him a market rate as a restricted free agent (likely in the $15 million to $20 million range annually), and he provides another prong in Cleveland’s slow but steady post-LeBron James rebuild.
I'm flabbergasted that the Cavs were able to acquire a 22-year-old "top-15 center going forward" for almost nothing. Allen will be a starter on our next Championship team where Exum and whoever we would have taken late in the first round next year would not even be in the rotation and possibly not on the roster. The Cavs got very lucky but as the Cavs' exec said, this is why they acquire extra draft picks and the MLE - so they can take advantage of situations as they arise.
Perhaps the biggest winner of all on Wednesday was Cleveland, which took a 2022 first-round pick from Milwaukee that is likely to be in the 25-30 range and turned it into a center of the future in Jarrett Allen.
The fine print on this is fascinating: Cleveland had a $3.84 million trade exception from the December 2019 Jordan Clarkson trade that was a month from expiring, and Allen’s $3.91 million contract happened to fit juuuuust under the wire to use it. (A trade exception can be used on a player who makes up to $100,000 more than the exception amount). Had the Rockets dragged their feet a few more weeks on trading Harden, Cleveland would have missed out.
As a result, the Cavs were able to trade Dante Exum for Taurean Prince and still squeeze Allen into the trade. Prince is a negative asset at this point, a decent-enough backup 4 who makes $13 million next season (I never really understood why Brooklyn gave him that extension), but Cleveland’s cap situation is solid enough to handle that contract.
In the short term this further crowds Cleveland’s overpopulated frontcourt, but the Cavs aren’t thinking about the short term here. Allen is only 22 and projects as a top-15 center going forward. The Cavs have enough flexibility below the luxury tax line to pay him a market rate as a restricted free agent (likely in the $15 million to $20 million range annually), and he provides another prong in Cleveland’s slow but steady post-LeBron James rebuild.
I'm flabbergasted that the Cavs were able to acquire a 22-year-old "top-15 center going forward" for almost nothing. Allen will be a starter on our next Championship team where Exum and whoever we would have taken late in the first round next year would not even be in the rotation and possibly not on the roster. The Cavs got very lucky but as the Cavs' exec said, this is why they acquire extra draft picks and the MLE - so they can take advantage of situations as they arise.
Lee
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Indians are a bit different, Gilbert because of the sale of Quicken is the 2nd richest owner in the league at something like 36 Billion and will spend what it costs to win. I think if we ever have true cap space we can get someone to come here in a couple years if we are a good team. Cleveland isn't a black hole, but it isn't the type of city players want to play for if we aren't contenders like Miami, LA, NY, ect.
I do agree build within, we wont be able to pull off a Lakers rebuild, but along the way if we are good we could get someone force their way here, but once again only if we are a top 5 team already.
Lee
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He probably becomes a top 10 center imo, but not top 5....top 3 defensively though.
Perfect fit for a short but high scoring backcourt.
Lee
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We really need 3 positions, Center and PF, we have allot of age at those positions, Nance isn't young but not old and Allen, but if we are going to try SexLand, we need a young backup pg, the level of player we can maybe get for McGee....a Delvadova level player under 25 without the skull fractures.
Sir'Dom Pointer
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Was right about Precious too! I mean, sorta. He had him as the next big thing..but he is pretty decent.
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The Kyrie trade produced the assets that in large part got us Sexton, Nance and Allen.
Koby turned lemons Thomas and Crowder into lemonade.
Kyrie’s behavior now also adds weight to the contention that Kyrie was ready to have surgery or otherwise play hardball if the Cavaliers didn’t trade him.
Koby was dealt a tough hand but he’s done a great job playing his cards.
JJ_PR
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Yeah. That's some executive of the year type of ish from Altman.
JJ_PR
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I thought this team was playoff bound before the trades, & before the injuries. Now, I think 6-8 seed is totally doable. We have Garland, Sexton & Drummond coming back from injury + the new additions in Prince & Allen. This team has alot of depth.
As for the point guard situation, I'd sign Shabazz Napier to the vet minimum. He was very good last year for the Wizards & is only 29. Also, his mom is Puerto Rican just like I am. Would be cool to have a fellow Puerto Rican on the Cavs.
As for the point guard situation, I'd sign Shabazz Napier to the vet minimum. He was very good last year for the Wizards & is only 29. Also, his mom is Puerto Rican just like I am. Would be cool to have a fellow Puerto Rican on the Cavs.
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Some perspective:
"When we set out on this mission, from the post-Championship years, we weren’t really gifted anything; it wasn’t like we had a plethora of assets,” said Altman. “We had to make a monumental trade and so that was our sole, big asset that we had, in terms of a draft pick. And we had to go down a path of asset acquisition. And it was a lot of singles – hitting singles, singles, singles.
”So, what you’re seeing over the last few transactions is really just cashing in on those singles. Using trade exceptions, using picks, using second round picks to get you into different conversations. And when an opportunity like this happens, you’re overjoyed because you put yourself in a position to strike. And we’ll see where it goes from here. But it puts us in a wonderful position to play competitive basketball this year and bring a long-term piece to the team who’s the right age with our core.”
"When we set out on this mission, from the post-Championship years, we weren’t really gifted anything; it wasn’t like we had a plethora of assets,” said Altman. “We had to make a monumental trade and so that was our sole, big asset that we had, in terms of a draft pick. And we had to go down a path of asset acquisition. And it was a lot of singles – hitting singles, singles, singles.
”So, what you’re seeing over the last few transactions is really just cashing in on those singles. Using trade exceptions, using picks, using second round picks to get you into different conversations. And when an opportunity like this happens, you’re overjoyed because you put yourself in a position to strike. And we’ll see where it goes from here. But it puts us in a wonderful position to play competitive basketball this year and bring a long-term piece to the team who’s the right age with our core.”
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I'll say this, considering where the Cavs have picked, who they had available, and when they decided to rebuild, the Cavs have absolutely crushed teams like Atlanta and Detroit. You can throw the Pelicans, Wizards and about a handful of other teams in there too.
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Fedor's column summed it up nicely. I like the analogy of quietly hitting a lot of singles and then cashing them in. A few key quotes...
“To add a center that’s 22 years old, going into his fourth year in the league, that’s proven, that has more upside, that has all the intangibles you look for to add to your culture, to have that opportunity yesterday, we just felt was too good to pass up.” - Altman
“Jarrett adds a piece that, certainly (fits a) long-term vision in terms of how we want to play, how J.B. wants to play,” Altman said. “Everything we know about him, he’s a wonderful person, great character, about team. Brilliant intellectually, fits our young group. And then to add Taurean Prince is a big deal for us, too. A tough, defensive minded player that we know will add to this group as well....To give up the value we did, we definitely see [Allen] in our long-term future.”
“I think he has a ton of room for upside,” head coach J.B. Bickerstaff said.
“We probably get the best, young rim-protecting center in the league, which helps us defensively -- something that’s been a focal point for us,” Bickerstaff said. “Not to mention the vertical spacing he provides on the offensive end, the way that he’s able to navigate pick and rolls on the offensive end to help our guards when they get healthy. Taurean, his ability to space the floor, the toughness that he brings. These are the type of people we’re looking for and players as well.”
“To add a center that’s 22 years old, going into his fourth year in the league, that’s proven, that has more upside, that has all the intangibles you look for to add to your culture, to have that opportunity yesterday, we just felt was too good to pass up.” - Altman
“Jarrett adds a piece that, certainly (fits a) long-term vision in terms of how we want to play, how J.B. wants to play,” Altman said. “Everything we know about him, he’s a wonderful person, great character, about team. Brilliant intellectually, fits our young group. And then to add Taurean Prince is a big deal for us, too. A tough, defensive minded player that we know will add to this group as well....To give up the value we did, we definitely see [Allen] in our long-term future.”
“I think he has a ton of room for upside,” head coach J.B. Bickerstaff said.
“We probably get the best, young rim-protecting center in the league, which helps us defensively -- something that’s been a focal point for us,” Bickerstaff said. “Not to mention the vertical spacing he provides on the offensive end, the way that he’s able to navigate pick and rolls on the offensive end to help our guards when they get healthy. Taurean, his ability to space the floor, the toughness that he brings. These are the type of people we’re looking for and players as well.”
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It's crazy to think the Cavs have a chance to go from worst to first defensively in one off-season, but that might just happen. The Cavs are now third in defensive efficiency (points allowed per possession). Allen and Prince just make them better.
One area the Cavs need to improve is defensive rebounding - they rank 29th in percentage of missed shots rebounded. Center is not the problem; Drummond is in the top 1% of centers and McGee ranks in the 93rd percentile. It's mostly the forwards. Nance ranks in the 8th percentile among power forwards in defensive rebounding. Okoro is in the bottom 1% of small forwards, averaging 3.2 rebounds per 40 minutes. Sexton is in the 2nd percentile. Cedi is in the 44th percentile, still below average.
Getting Kevin Love back will help; last year he ranked in the 97th percentile among power forwards for defensive rebounding. He's among the best in the league while Nance is among the worst. Nance brings a lot of defense that Love can't match so it's a tradeoff, but I expect the defensive rebounding to improve somewhat when Love returns. But in the meantime, Okoro and Nance need to get better on the defensive glass.
I get that both of them spend a lot of time on the perimeter challenging shots. But we can't expect Dre, McGee and Allen to get every missed shot unless two of them are on the floor together.
Another problem is our perimeter players get beat off the dribble too much or get picked off by screens, forcing the big to challenge the shot and leaving the rim undefended for an easy put-back.
On another topic, JBB seems almost giddy about all the options he'll have. He can go big, small, stress offense, defense, whatever. In final minute situations with the opponent having the ball coming out of a time out he can put Drummond, Allen, Nance, Okoro and a guard on the floor at the same time and make it very tough for the opponent to score or get an offensive rebound. Then when we get the rebound call time out and put in Sexton, Garland, Love, Porter, and a big to get a score. It could look like football with two separate teams, one for offense and one for defense.
One area the Cavs need to improve is defensive rebounding - they rank 29th in percentage of missed shots rebounded. Center is not the problem; Drummond is in the top 1% of centers and McGee ranks in the 93rd percentile. It's mostly the forwards. Nance ranks in the 8th percentile among power forwards in defensive rebounding. Okoro is in the bottom 1% of small forwards, averaging 3.2 rebounds per 40 minutes. Sexton is in the 2nd percentile. Cedi is in the 44th percentile, still below average.
Getting Kevin Love back will help; last year he ranked in the 97th percentile among power forwards for defensive rebounding. He's among the best in the league while Nance is among the worst. Nance brings a lot of defense that Love can't match so it's a tradeoff, but I expect the defensive rebounding to improve somewhat when Love returns. But in the meantime, Okoro and Nance need to get better on the defensive glass.
I get that both of them spend a lot of time on the perimeter challenging shots. But we can't expect Dre, McGee and Allen to get every missed shot unless two of them are on the floor together.
Another problem is our perimeter players get beat off the dribble too much or get picked off by screens, forcing the big to challenge the shot and leaving the rim undefended for an easy put-back.
On another topic, JBB seems almost giddy about all the options he'll have. He can go big, small, stress offense, defense, whatever. In final minute situations with the opponent having the ball coming out of a time out he can put Drummond, Allen, Nance, Okoro and a guard on the floor at the same time and make it very tough for the opponent to score or get an offensive rebound. Then when we get the rebound call time out and put in Sexton, Garland, Love, Porter, and a big to get a score. It could look like football with two separate teams, one for offense and one for defense.
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With respect to the comments about no star players being willing to sign with the Cavs, that is probably the case. I see the Cavs building a team similar to those near-miss teams of the 90's that had good players at every position but no stars. Obviously I'm referring to the Price, Harper, Ehlo, Nance, Williams, Daugherty team. A lot of talent, but no Michael Jordan. They were only able to go so far.
I see the Cavs building a team similar to the Trail Blazers, who had 26 winning seasons in the last 34 years and 13 seasons with 50 wins or more. Yet they only made the Finals twice and lost both times (in 1990 and 1992). Looking at their win share leaders over the last 33 years, their best players were Drexler, Terry Porter, and Lillard. Drexler is a Hall of Fame and a 10-time All-Star; Lillard is a five-time All-Star at age 30. Their two Finals appearances were when they had Clyde.
The Blazers team of recent years fits the current Cavs profile with a high scoring guard tandem of Lillard and McCollum, a 16 and 10 guy at center (Nurcic), a 6'8" power forward averaging 9.4 and 7.5 (Aminu). In 2018-19 they won 53 games in the tough Western Conference with that lineup, plus Harkless and Layman at small forward, each averaging 7.6 ppg. Once the Cavs get their starting lineup of Dre, Love, Okoro, Sexton, and Garland healthy they could have a similar team.
The difference is their second team of Allen, Nance, Cedi/Windler, Porter, and Delly would be a lot better than what the Blazers had to work with.
But the Blazers never had a LeBron, Steph Curry, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, or Jimmy Butler type to elevate their team to a Championship and it's fair to wonder if the Cavs will become another Trail Blazers in a best case scenario.
By the way, the Indians are doing the same thing. Seven winning seasons in a row but no Championships. Always the bridesmaid or in the wedding, but never at the altar. But at least the Cavs are in a sport with a salary cap. It will be interesting to watch the Cavs play the Nets next season when the Cavs can throw waves of talent up against a team with three superstars and little else. Kind of like the 90's Cavs against the Bulls with Jordan, Pippan, and some role players.
I see the Cavs building a team similar to the Trail Blazers, who had 26 winning seasons in the last 34 years and 13 seasons with 50 wins or more. Yet they only made the Finals twice and lost both times (in 1990 and 1992). Looking at their win share leaders over the last 33 years, their best players were Drexler, Terry Porter, and Lillard. Drexler is a Hall of Fame and a 10-time All-Star; Lillard is a five-time All-Star at age 30. Their two Finals appearances were when they had Clyde.
The Blazers team of recent years fits the current Cavs profile with a high scoring guard tandem of Lillard and McCollum, a 16 and 10 guy at center (Nurcic), a 6'8" power forward averaging 9.4 and 7.5 (Aminu). In 2018-19 they won 53 games in the tough Western Conference with that lineup, plus Harkless and Layman at small forward, each averaging 7.6 ppg. Once the Cavs get their starting lineup of Dre, Love, Okoro, Sexton, and Garland healthy they could have a similar team.
The difference is their second team of Allen, Nance, Cedi/Windler, Porter, and Delly would be a lot better than what the Blazers had to work with.
But the Blazers never had a LeBron, Steph Curry, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, or Jimmy Butler type to elevate their team to a Championship and it's fair to wonder if the Cavs will become another Trail Blazers in a best case scenario.
By the way, the Indians are doing the same thing. Seven winning seasons in a row but no Championships. Always the bridesmaid or in the wedding, but never at the altar. But at least the Cavs are in a sport with a salary cap. It will be interesting to watch the Cavs play the Nets next season when the Cavs can throw waves of talent up against a team with three superstars and little else. Kind of like the 90's Cavs against the Bulls with Jordan, Pippan, and some role players.