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2021 Draft Prospects Thread

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Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I still don't value the position, and would be more inclined to grab a safety, corner, or defensive end on day one.
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Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't see a ton of difference between LB prospects at 26 or either of the 3rd round slots.

It seems like the Browns can go CB/S/Edge in the 1st......or even take a luxury offensive player if he slides, ala someone like Cedee last. Cowboys have Lamb on an absurd 4 year deal at 14 mil with a team option. And then consider addressing LB by trading a future pick for a known quantity or using their 3rd round selections for more of a system guy.

I just don't see a real difference making LB at #26 and I really hate when teams draft for need in the 1st, if their board and needs just do not align at all.

1st is BPA.....especially relative to the contract value of late 1sts and then get more need based the further you go in the later rounds.
 
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AZ_ said:
Trevon Moering - TCU - Deep S who also has played the slot some too.
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This was one guy that stood out to me on my amateur film watching binge.

It is tough to find safeties that can both cover in space and have a willingness to hit.

Where do you roughly think he goes? Early 2nd round?
 
I'mWithDan said:
This was one guy that stood out to me on my amateur film watching binge.

It is tough to find safeties that can both cover in space and have a willingness to hit.

Where do you roughly think he goes? Early 2nd round?
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Yeah probably anywhere from the back of 1 into Day 2 at this point. Its a pretty deep class, to me.

Without one clean look at all of these guys in Indy, its going to be weird trying to diagnose the differentiations in workout numbers.

He's not afraid to come up and support the run, but I'm curious if the Browns view him as more a deep middle they're getting from Delpit, and look more at the box/run-fill guys like Karl Joseph to fill the role.

Getting feedback from Woods on what he prefers from these positions would be nice, but the Cleveland beat will spend the off-season conjuring up OBJ rumors and such.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't see a ton of difference between LB prospects at 26 or either of the 3rd round slots.

It seems like the Browns can go CB/S/Edge in the 1st......or even take a luxury offensive player if he slides, ala someone like Cedee last. Cowboys have Lamb on an absurd 4 year deal at 14 mil with a team option. And then consider addressing LB by trading a future pick for a known quantity or using their 3rd round selections for more of a system guy.

I just don't see a real difference making LB at #26 and I really hate when teams draft for need in the 1st, if their board and needs just do not align at all.

1st is BPA.....especially relative to the contract value of late 1sts and then get more need based the further you go in the later rounds.
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I feel like the past couple of drafts there’s been a really steep drop off in LB talent outside of the first round, so if we’re looking to add instant impact at that position I think you kinda have to prioritize it
 
I wrote some past posts on the linebackers, buried in here somewhere. I was never high on Dylan Moses. I've been really high on Koramorah of Notre Dame... but I think he will be off the board when the Browns draft.

I've been really high on Nick Bolton. His height could be problematic against a bigger tight end in coverage, but other than that he has everything the Browns seem to value. He is capable in zone coverage and doesn't make mistakes in run support. He'd be a great pick at the end of the first.

Zaven Collins is a guy I want to research more. I can't pretend I watched Tulsa, but I look for size and passes defended in linebackers, and the numbers and highlights are impressive.

Last season, Jeremy Chinn and Kyle Duggar just showed me that small school talent on defense can still make huge impacts as rookies. I want to see more.

Surratt is a notch below because he has struggled in coverage. As a former quarterback, I feel like this glaring weakness is a lack of experience, not a low ceiling. Still, players should be ranked above him who have proven they have overcome this limit while still exceptional in run support.

Later I want to go into cornerbacks, because I see a sweet spot for the Browns to fill Kevin Johnson's role with a young third corner who can slide over to second corner when an injury hits.
 
Randolphkeys said:
I wrote some past posts on the linebackers, buried in here somewhere. I was never high on Dylan Moses. I've been really high on Koramorah of Notre Dame... but I think he will be off the board when the Browns draft.

I've been really high on Nick Bolton. His height could be problematic against a bigger right end in coverage, but other than that he has everything the Browns seem to value. He is capable in zone coverage and doesn't make mistakes in run support. He'd be a great pick at the end of the first.

Zaven Collins is a guy I want to research more. I can't pretend I watched Tulsa, but I look for size and passes defended in linebackers, and the numbers and highlights are impressive.

Last season, Jeremy Chinn and Kyle Duggar just showed me that small school talent on defense can still make huge impacts as rookies. I want to see more.

Surratt is a notch below because he has struggled in coverage. As a former quarterback, I feel like this glaring weakness is a lack of experience, not a low ceiling. Still, players should be ranked above him who have proven they have overcome this limit while still exceptional in run support.

Later I want to go into cornerbacks, because I see a sweet spot for the Browns to fill Kevin Johnson's role with a young third corner who can slide over to second corner when an injury hits.
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No to Moses! He is not what this team needs. A guy like Jabril Cox on day 2 makes way more sense!
 
blommen said:
I feel like the past couple of drafts there’s been a really steep drop off in LB talent outside of the first round, so if we’re looking to add instant impact at that position I think you kinda have to prioritize it
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I'd like to point out that Jordan Phillips was better than Patrick Queen and slightly worse than Kenneth Murray this year, while playing around significantly worse talent.

Linebackers are like running backs. Only take them on day 2 if you are sure they are special, otherwise they are mostly replaceable.
 
Watching Notre Dame I never saw anything special about Koramorah. I saw him make one tackle in the backfield when he was unblocked, but otherwise just a lot of running around and jumping on piles. I'm no expert, whether it's basketball or football if I'm watching a random game mainly to check out a prospect, I like to watch a while with the sound off to see if I can pick the guy out without knowing his number. I definitely needed to look up Koramorah's number.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
I'd like to point out that Jordan Phillips was better than Patrick Queen and slightly worse than Kenneth Murray this year, while playing around significantly worse talent.
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I know you meant Jacob Phillips. I have made that mistake as well. It's like The Beach Boys or Wilson Phillips in the NFL with all the Wilsons, Jordans and Phillips.

Phillips was playing better by the end of the year, correct. His first 2/3rds of the season were awful. PFF wasn't kind to him at all.
 
blommen said:
I feel like the past couple of drafts there’s been a really steep drop off in LB talent outside of the first round, so if we’re looking to add instant impact at that position I think you kinda have to prioritize it
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Can you elaborate?

Because, last year, Logan Wilson went at 65, and he looked every bit as capable as Patrick Queen and Jordan Brooks, who went in the first.

The year before that, I don't think there were any first round linebackers outside of the top 10... and Okereke may have been the best of the rest. He was drafted at 89.

2018 may have been the best first-round linebacker group in recent memory, with Roquan Smith, Vander Esch, and Edmunds all looking like hits... but the two best linebackers in that class were drafted later. Darius Leonard and Fred Warner.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
I'd like to point out that Jordan Phillips was better than Patrick Queen and slightly worse than Kenneth Murray this year, while playing around significantly worse talent.

Linebackers are like running backs. Only take them on day 2 if you are sure they are special, otherwise they are mostly replaceable.
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I'm not sure you could find a team in the NFL that would rather have Jacob Phillips than Patrick Queen.

I'm all about drafting linebackers later, but I don't think this example is the one to hang your hat on.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I'm not sure you could find a team in the NFL that would rather have Jacob Phillips than Patrick Queen.

I'm all about drafting linebackers later, but I don't think this example is the one to hang your hat on.
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I think what he is trying say is by taking a lb in round 3 that could have a similar impact to one taken in round one you win out. You take the third rounder every time, because you could use the first rounder on a more valuable position then lb. The first rounder is a better prospect but it is not a huge gap to justify two rounds of difference.

unless the lb is a stud I'm not sure it is worth a first rounder in the modern nfl. Just being good is not enough to justify passing up defenders that are far more valuable defending the run.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
I'd like to point out that Jordan Phillips was better than Patrick Queen and slightly worse than Kenneth Murray this year, while playing around significantly worse talent.

Linebackers are like running backs. Only take them on day 2 if you are sure they are special, otherwise they are mostly replaceable.
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People are underestimating how good Phillips can be.

He's not even 22 until next season.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I'm not sure you could find a team in the NFL that would rather have Jacob Phillips than Patrick Queen.

I'm all about drafting linebackers later, but I don't think this example is the one to hang your hat on.
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So, this might surprise you, but Patrick Queen is like Mack Wilson bad vs the run.
 
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