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2020-21 Offseason Discussion

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
In the 70s, the depth of the wilderness years of Tribe baseball, the old Stauffer on the Square had baseball packages, and my wife and I would do them once in a while on a Friday night.

After one game, we stopped at the bar, which was located in the lobby. Soon, one of our starting pitchers strolled thru with a tall blonde.

A few weeks later a bunch of my friends and I had seats behind third base....right in front of the area reserved for the wives of the players. As the game went on we all got acquainted, and I got to talk with the wife of that starting pitcher. She was not tall nor blonde.

****************

I had a friend from high school who became an Indians groupie. She became convinced that she would become Mrs Tribe Catcher. She was not happy when the title went to somebody else.

****************

Right or wrong, I don't view either of these situations as any kind of harrassment....nor do I view them as coming under the legal purview of team management.

**********

I unintentionally became involved for years in the enforcement of sexual harassment cases at my place of employment....and I've seen both sides. Thru my....uh....suggestions, one supervisor and one plant manager were terminated. On the other hand, several wrongly accused were not.

Consential is a fine line. In some cases the line is drawn after the fact. Or it is used as a weapon.

Callaway sounds like a crud. But, because of my experience, I have a hard time labeling Tribe management the same way.

A husband is irate because his wife is having an affair with another man. His problem is his wife, not the other man. And its not the problem of the other man's employer.

The husband is not trying to get his problem solved. He is trying to exact revenge.
 
Yep, they are totally different. Yet, in the end, we need to put ourselves in other people's shoes to understand better. That's what I like about Who explanation about PR culture.

I was just trying to correlate, why some people don't speak up whether it be a 20 year old rookie w his name which seems trivial when being compared to a woman being sent images by a pitching coach or verbally denigrated whether a man or woman.
Only he wasn’t a 20 year old rookie forever. Guy could have spoken up (especially to his teammates who called him the same thing). But he didn’t, he just decided to keep being a mega bitch.
 
That would be a surprise to me.

Outside of just general womanizing and sleaziness (believe me, affair made public is the tip of the iceberg), I haven't and didn't hear one peep about Mickey doing anything along the lines of harassment or random lewdness while in Cleveland, especially within the organization. For better or for worse, he kept his shit away from the organization.

To me, the only bad light on this situation right now is not giving the Mets the full details when they were thinking about hiring him. It would still be kept private, but also lets the Mets know to keep an eye on him like the Indians themselves were doing.

Is a full frontal wearing a Tribe cap keeping shit away from the organization? That stuck-out to me.

ETA: That's not to say it was 100% known, but I don't think he kept the organization out of it and I do think, whether or not he can see/acknowledge it, his position of power was in play when creeping on women.
 
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Guys using their position of relevance to try to convince women to sleep with them has been around as long as there have been positions of relevance. Not sure this is an employer issue. If married players are having sex on road trips with random women should the team intervene and make it an HR issue? Creepy, desperate or pathetic behavior is not necessarily illegal or something your employer should be part of.
 
Guys using their position of relevance to try to convince women to sleep with them has been around as long as there have been positions of relevance. Not sure this is an employer issue. If married players are having sex on road trips with random women should the team intervene and make it an HR issue? Creepy, desperate or pathetic behavior is not necessarily illegal or something your employer should be part of.

Because something happened forever in the past doesn't mean it's right to continue into the future.
 
Guys using their position of relevance to try to convince women to sleep with them has been around as long as there have been positions of relevance. Not sure this is an employer issue. If married players are having sex on road trips with random women should the team intervene and make it an HR issue? Creepy, desperate or pathetic behavior is not necessarily illegal or something your employer should be part of.

What you're describing is a cultural issue.

Which is exactly the point, we need leaders to change a broken culture.

Not the enablement and a lack of accountability that perpetuates it, and that's generally where the breakdown is.
 
What you're describing is a cultural issue.

Which is exactly the point, we need leaders to change a broken culture.

Not the enablement and a lack of accountability that perpetuates it, and that's generally where the breakdown is.
Extremely well put.

Culture is the issue here, not necessarily the "behavior".
 
In the 70s, the depth of the wilderness years of Tribe baseball, the old Stauffer on the Square had baseball packages, and my wife and I would do them once in a while on a Friday night.

After one game, we stopped at the bar, which was located in the lobby. Soon, one of our starting pitchers strolled thru with a tall blonde.

A few weeks later a bunch of my friends and I had seats behind third base....right in front of the area reserved for the wives of the players. As the game went on we all got acquainted, and I got to talk with the wife of that starting pitcher. She was not tall nor blonde.

****************

I had a friend from high school who became an Indians groupie. She became convinced that she would become Mrs Tribe Catcher. She was not happy when the title went to somebody else.

****************

Right or wrong, I don't view either of these situations as any kind of harrassment....nor do I view them as coming under the legal purview of team management.

**********

I unintentionally became involved for years in the enforcement of sexual harassment cases at my place of employment....and I've seen both sides. Thru my....uh....suggestions, one supervisor and one plant manager were terminated. On the other hand, several wrongly accused were not.

Consential is a fine line. In some cases the line is drawn after the fact. Or it is used as a weapon.

Callaway sounds like a crud. But, because of my experience, I have a hard time labeling Tribe management the same way.

A husband is irate because his wife is having an affair with another man. His problem is his wife, not the other man. And its not the problem of the other man's employer.

The husband is not trying to get his problem solved. He is trying to exact revenge.
Yeah, The Atlantic conveniently missed that part. Plenty about outside of the organization accusations and "worst kept secret" but little if anything specific about what was happening inside the organization. Maybe Mick's a hound. To each their own. MLB is full of them. So is every large employer. Just keep it out of the workplace or get fired/#metoo'd/cancelled.
 
Did he break the law?

If he didnt break the law should his employer have the ability to fire him for doing non-illegal activities?

Should his employer face consequences for not firing their employee that wasnt breaking the law?

I know a dude that is a total fucking dog. Bangs everything that walks; fat, skinny, short, tall, old, younger (still legal). i know for a fact this dude sends dick pics to chicks all the time. However, he is a great employee, nice to everyone, treats everyone with respect and his professional life and his personal life are completely and totally separated. Should i report him to HR because he fucks a lot?

Responding to each question:

Depends on if sexual harassment was happening. I'd bet it was, but we don't know yet. Dick pics to friends? I mean...

Yes, his employer should. I've never understood why legality matters when it comes to this. If he did shit to hurt the Indians organization, who cares if it was legal?

So Tito is more like a supervisor than an employer. Should my supervisor face consequences for not dealing with actions I took that disparage our organization? I would say so.

Does the dude you work with snap dick pics in the conference room? If yes, then yes, you should report him.
 
Responding to each question:

Depends on if sexual harassment was happening. I'd bet it was, but we don't know yet. Dick pics to friends? I mean...

Yes, his employer should. I've never understood why legality matters when it comes to this. If he did shit to hurt the Indians organization, who cares if it was legal?

So Tito is more like a supervisor than an employer. Should my supervisor face consequences for not dealing with actions I took that disparage our organization? I would say so.

Does the dude you work with snap dick pics in the conference room? If yes, then yes, you should report him.
Maybe he just photoshops the conference into the pics?>.
 
What you're describing is a cultural issue.

Which is exactly the point, we need leaders to change a broken culture.

Not the enablement and a lack of accountability that perpetuates it, and that's generally where the breakdown is.
with all the sexually transmitted diseases .. a culture seems like a good idea..
 
I grew up an Anglo in Puerto Rico when Roberto Clemente was called "Bob" in the states. Puerto Ricans universally considered this disrespectful and dismissive, even if unintentional. I instinctively knew never to call Francisco "Frankie" and never did, ever. I cringed whenever I saw it used, here or anywhere.

I say this as a critic of the way Francisco's carefully cultivated his image, the coy way he courted fans while undermining the organization, and the casual way he accepted superstar status without the superstar accomplishments or responsibility. But while he was always "Francisco" to me (I secondarily called him "disappointment"), if "Frankie" bothered him, no one was in better position to change what he was called than Lindor. That he failed to educate the broader community to the importance of his real name is largely his failure...he had the platform, he had the personality, he had us in the palm of his hand.

Hell, all it took for Joey to become Albert was a glare. Couldn't Mr. Smile have changed our behavior as quickly?

That's interesting, Who, I think we're probably about the same age (68 as of yesterday). I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland, a baseball fan since the late '50s, and I never heard or saw Clemente referred to as "Bob." Not saying he wasn't, but I don't think it was widely used in the States.
 


Can't imagine that he was thrilled with Francona unequivocally stating that they never covered up for Callaway's behavior, which was almost certainly an incredibly stupid thing to do.
 
Responding to each question:

Depends on if sexual harassment was happening. I'd bet it was, but we don't know yet. Dick pics to friends? I mean...

Yes, his employer should. I've never understood why legality matters when it comes to this. If he did shit to hurt the Indians organization, who cares if it was legal?

So Tito is more like a supervisor than an employer. Should my supervisor face consequences for not dealing with actions I took that disparage our organization? I would say so.

Does the dude you work with snap dick pics in the conference room? If yes, then yes, you should report him.

So basically what this boils down to, and i think something you are missing is employees have rights. An employer just cant go around firing anyone they want because they dont like what they do in their personal time. Serious question if your boss called you up and fired you because he found out you masturbate at home on your own personal time, what would you do? You would be on the phone in an instant with a lawyer, and for good reason. Legality of what the employee did is what turns the argument from a messy lawsuit to an easy justification for firing someone, so thats why legality matters.

As far as your final question, as I said the dude is an absolute professional. No one that doesnt know this dude outside of work would think he is a sexaddict
 

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