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2021 Series #5 | Indians @ Reds| April 16th, 17th, and 18th

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Cesar Hernandez has not played well so far. Hopefully he'll shake it off. His walk rate looks great in the early going though, so if he starts hitting the ball closer to historical norms and keeps the walk rate going... He should have a career year....
 
WhoAzcue said:
As I said, play Rosario every day in CF. But I don't want Daniel Johnson on the bench. He has more potential than Bradley Zimmer and shouldn't be on the big club until he can play every freaking day a right hander is starting. If you're not willing to platoon DJ with Amed, and we want to give Luplow a full shot at playing every day, then just bring up Zimmer to be Rosario's caddy. Your job description above has Bradley Zimmer written all over it. Please don't waste Jet in that job.
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Funny, I was also thinking about bringing up Zimmer and I think he has no business being in the majors. But he would be great as a defensive replacement for Amed once we get a late lead. He'd be great as a pinch runner for Berto or Reyes late in a tie game. And it would give Johnson a chance to play every day in Columbus.

If the Indians are going to be playing a lot of close, low-scoring games, which it appears they will, having a guy with Zimmer's speed to bring in as a pinch runner or as a defensive replacement could win a couple of games over the course of the season.
 
CDAV45 said:
I knew what your intent was when you mentioned Zimmer and I'd only want Johnson up if there would be a fairly regular rotation. I agree, if he's going to sit most of the time then leave him down and use someone else.

Naylor has had a couple of poor reads in RF. A position he's never played until recently and people want to relocate him to 1B forever. A position he hasn't played in 4 yrs because he isn't really ideal for the position. He should only be playing 1B for this team because the other options are less than admirable from all indications. It's basically Josh's position by default at this time, but I think LF will be his after this season if he performs well at the plate.
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Why isn't Naylor ideal for first, or vice versa?
 
CATS44 said:
Why isn't Naylor ideal for first, or vice versa?
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Naylor's height and reach are not ideal for a 1B.... and he doesn't hit for power or average.... at least not yet.. Franmill.. does.. or has started to..
 
Just one example of how well some of our players are swinging the bats without corresponding production.

Going into to day, Reyes slash line was 234/275/533/807.

His BABIP was .250 vs his career average of .311.

If his BABIP was merely average, his slash line would be 277/294/596/890, and everyone would be singing Hallelujah.

BUT...

The way he has been hitting the ball should put his slash line much higher, well into the .900s....even with the Ks and low walk rate.

His average exit velocity is 94.8, compared to his career 92.9.

His launch angle is 13.0, compared to 9.4.

His barrel% is 18.8, compared to 13.2.

His hard hit % is 56.3, compared to 48.8.

Compared to every other MLB batter, he ranks...

8th in AEV.
9th in hard hit percentage.
6th in barrel%.
6th in barrel% per plate appearance, which includes his Ks and BBQ

If he was getting the production that his batting deserved, folks would be talking about putting up a statue of him.
 
Gson said:
Naylor's height and reach are not ideal for a 1B.... and he doesn't hit for power or average.... at least not yet.. Franmill.. does.. or has started to..
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Jose Ramirez isn't the ideal size to play 3B, and in his first 600 at bats he didn't hit for average or power.

We just had a pretty fair defensive 1B who was the same size as Naylor.
 
CATS44 said:
Why isn't Naylor ideal for first, or vice versa?
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I prefer a larger individual at 1B, and one that is a bit more defensively gifted. Outside of C no defensive player touches the ball more. Like I said, I see Naylor as the best 1B option for this team currently, but he isn't ideal for the position. Tito himself stated early in ST that they viewed him more as an OFer. I prefer Jones as the future 1B for this organization and I wouldn't let Josh Naylor get in his way when he is more adept to LF.

I've said it before, but I'll reiterate my stance. I think Josh will be a very acceptable LFer from both a defensive and offensive view. I don't think he'll ever be considered the best player on the team by any stretch of the imagination, but that doesn't mean he can't be valuable.

He is no Carlos Santana so I won't even bother with that silliness. Los was a C at one time so should we give Josh a shot at that too? If he turns out to be the 2nd coming of Los then I guess we'll all be ecstatic and you can lay claim to infinite baseball wisdom, but for now he is undersized while being less than adequate defensively as well as offensively for the position. Maybe that will change as he matures, but for now it is what it is.

Please just stop with the Jose Ramirez comparisons. Do you realize how rare of a player he is so trying to compare anyone that isn't otherworldly to him is a dramatic reach. Maybe you see Naylor's ceiling as Jose's, but the natural world does not concede except for a select few.
 
CATS44 said:
Jose Ramirez isn't the ideal size to play 3B, and in his first 600 at bats he didn't hit for average or power.

We just had a pretty fair defensive 1B who was the same size as Naylor.
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Ideally..

Sure.. Carlos was pretty fair to well above average 1B for the Tribe.. ..and he still wasn't ideal for 1B...to answer the question posed..
 
CATS44 said:
Jose Ramirez isn't the ideal size to play 3B, and in his first 600 at bats he didn't hit for average or power.

We just had a pretty fair defensive 1B who was the same size as Naylor
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Gson said:
Ideally..

Sure.. Carlos was pretty fair to well above average 1B for the Tribe.. ..and he still wasn't ideal for 1B...to answer the question posed..
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Ya ML 1B under 6' are pretty rare most are in the 6'3'-6'5" range
 
CDAV45 said:
Please just stop with the Jose Ramirez comparisons. Do you realize how rare of a player he is so trying to compare anyone that isn't otherworldly to him is a dramatic reach. Maybe you see Naylor's ceiling as Jose's, but the natural world does not concede except for a select few.
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I may be wrong, but I don't think CATS is saying Naylor is another Ramirez, just that prejudging Naylor's capabilities is as presumptive as many were about Ramirez's. Or Brantley's. Or Hafner's. Or Casey Blake's. Or any number of players who proved that they were more than they were pigeonholed after a handful of major league at-bats.
 
WhoAzcue said:
I may be wrong, but I don't think CATS is saying Naylor is another Ramirez, just that prejudging Naylor's capabilities is as presumptive as many were about Ramirez's. Or Brantley's. Or Hafner's. Or Casey Blake's. Or any number of players who proved that they were more than they were pigeonholed after a handful of major league at-bats.
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He used an extremely rare example for his argument that Naylor could be better than we think. I don't think he's a bad player to begin with, but I'm sure we can agree that the chances of him turning out like Ramirez is very unlikely.

I think the "pigeon hole" argument is basically aimed at a poster or 2 that see Naylor as a complete and total failure. I'm not one of them, but I have no illusions of grandeur about Josh either.

Maybe Josh turns out to be a fantastic 1B, but right now he isn't "ideal" for the position due to his size and poor defense there. I find it hard to believe that there is a logical argument to counter what I'm saying. The rarities of undersized people like Ramirez, Santana, Garvery, or Allen exceeding expectations doesn't really build a case for it either IMO. Please remember, that I said that Naylor is the best 1B option for this team in the present and that it should happen immediately. That doesn't change the reality of it though.
 
CDAV45 said:
I prefer a larger individual at 1B, and one that is a bit more defensively gifted. Outside of C no defensive player touches the ball more. Like I said, I see Naylor as the best 1B option for this team currently, but he isn't ideal for the position. Tito himself stated early in ST that they viewed him more as an OFer. I prefer Jones as the future 1B for this organization and I wouldn't let Josh Naylor get in his way when he is more adept to LF.

I've said it before, but I'll reiterate my stance. I think Josh will be a very acceptable LFer from both a defensive and offensive view. I don't think he'll ever be considered the best player on the team by any stretch of the imagination, but that doesn't mean he can't be valuable.

He is no Carlos Santana so I won't even bother with that silliness. Los was a C at one time so should we give Josh a shot at that too? If he turns out to be the 2nd coming of Los then I guess we'll all be ecstatic and you can lay claim to infinite baseball wisdom, but for now he is undersized while being less than adequate defensively as well as offensively for the position. Maybe that will change as he matures, but for now it is what it is.

Please just stop with the Jose Ramirez comparisons. Do you realize how rare of a player he is so trying to compare anyone that isn't otherworldly to him is a dramatic reach. Maybe you see Naylor's ceiling as Jose's, but the natural world does not concede except for a select few.
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I don't think that was his point though... JRam is really short for baseball in general... I'm not sure if he is even 5'9 like listed... If you were gonna put anyone at 1B based off of height and reach I'd think we would all say Zimmer...

Naw he was just stating height isn't everything and honestly at the current moment, Luplow in RF and Naylor at 1B has me a lot more positive about the lineup than keeping Bauer.
 
sportscoach said:
I don't think that was his point though... JRam is really short for baseball in general... I'm not sure if he is even 5'9 like listed... If you were gonna put anyone at 1B based off of height and reach I'd think we would all say Zimmer...

Naw he was just stating height isn't everything and honestly at the current moment, Luplow in RF and Naylor at 1B has me a lot more positive about the lineup than keeping Bauer.
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I literally said the exact same thing, but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't ideal. Santana wasn't and isn't ideal either. Neither was Garvey or any other "short" 1B. Does anyone here think there is an advantage to being under 6' for 1B? Would Santana have been less desirable at 1B if he was 6'2"? I don't get this argument, and using Jose Ramirez as an example is an exaggeration for almost any comparison. Obviously height isn't everything, but it is useful in certain circumstances and I happen to believe that catching throws from all the other positions is one of those. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think most of us agree that Naylor should be our 1B while Luplow takes over RF, but that wasn't the question. The question was "why isn't Naylor ideal for 1B"?
 
CDAV45 said:
There's the possibility of failure for every player, but even I find it difficult to believe that Josh Naylor won't be a better hitter at 26 then he is at 24. Hell, I find it difficult to believe that he won't be a better hitter before the end of this season. I know this sounds cliche, but it's still quite early. Some patience is in order for a young player like Naylor. Now, if he goes down the path of Jake Bauers then I'd prefer they cut bait and run ASAP, but it's just way too early to determine that.

Edited to state that while you're concerned about Naylor, Jordan Luplow is making a case to be an everyday player. Every team has to take the good with the bad and vice versa. I'm all for improving the team, but we really don't know exactly what parts need to be replaced other than maybe Bauers.
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I am not advocating releasing Naylor tomorrow. I am pointing out that his nearly 400 ABs in the majors do not profile so far to a guy that will have a job anywhere as a regular in 2 years with his position limitations. His youth gives him a bit of a bigger window, but 2 years ago Jake Bauers was doing a few positive things at 23 to go with some very concerning things and we thought time would only make him better. He didn't fix those weaknesses and he will be a DFA candidate soon.
 
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