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2021 Series #5 | Indians @ Reds| April 16th, 17th, and 18th

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I am not advocating releasing Naylor tomorrow. I am pointing out that his nearly 400 ABs in the majors do not profile so far to a guy that will have a job anywhere as a regular in 2 years with his position limitations. His youth gives him a bit of a bigger window, but 2 years ago Jake Bauers was doing a few positive things at 23 to go with some very concerning things and we thought time would only make him better. He didn't fix those weaknesses and he will be a DFA candidate soon.
There's nothing illogical in your post her Cal. I would go as far to say that Naylor is more likely to end up like Bauers than exceed expectations to the extent Ramirez did. Thing is, it's just way too soon to make a determination and Bauers no longer has that luxury IMO.
 
I never said that Naylor will be another Ramirez, but this judgement base upon relatively few at bats and a players size is inane.

What is 'ideal for any position?

The player that can do it well.

Sandy's height certainly wasn't ideal for a catcher according to those who prejudge based upon body type. He was too freaking tall by at least four inches to be an ideal catcher...except that he was.

Some of you folks wouldn't have signed Kirby Puckett or CC Sabathia (too fat) or Pedro Martinez (too short and too skinny) or Chris Speilman (too short and too slow) or Bill Russell (too short).

Get over it. Good ball players come in all shapes and sizes.
 
I literally said the exact same thing, but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't ideal. Santana wasn't and isn't ideal either. Neither was Garvey or any other "short" 1B. Does anyone here think there is an advantage to being under 6' for 1B? Would Santana have been less desirable at 1B if he was 6'2"? I don't get this argument, and using Jose Ramirez as an example is an exaggeration for almost any comparison. Obviously height isn't everything, but it is useful in certain circumstances and I happen to believe that catching throws from all the other positions is one of those. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think most of us agree that Naylor should be our 1B while Luplow takes over RF, but that wasn't the question. The question was "why isn't Naylor ideal for 1B"?
I'll take Santana and his near-elite defense at first over someone else just because they're tall.

I think you're hung up on this "ideal" thing you keep bringing up. You're right, if we're carving a perfect first baseman out of marble, we would make him as tall as the tallest block of marble we could find. But, that's not reality. It's kind of pointless to bring up.

Jose's not the "ideal" third baseman, but he might be the best in the business. Albert Pujols wasn't an "ideal" first baseman because he's right-handed. That doesn't mean he isn't a first-ballot HOF and the best 1B of his generation. So what value is there in discussing "ideal"? If you want, feel free to state that every single player isn't "ideal" and I'll agree with you, then we can move on. Ideally, I want Bieber throwing 103mph.

Reality is like you've said--Naylor is likely our best option right now and should be playing the position.
 
Maybe Josh turns out to be a fantastic 1B, but right now he isn't "ideal" for the position due to his size and poor defense there.
Listen, I appreciate your willingness to endorse playing Naylor at 1B now despite your reservations about him since we really don't have anyone else better to play there on the roster right now. And I get why you don't think he's ideal physically. But on what basis can we claim that he's not ideal because of his poor defense? I mean, is this something intrinsic we know about him? Or just that he's "poor" because he hasn't played there? Or because he got excited to end the game the other day after making two flawless pickups on ground balls and then the third one he just botched because, well, that sometimes happens when a guy takes his eyes off the ball for a second before turning to run toward the end zone? Do we REALLY know he's a poor defender? Which essentially means he's well below average both now and into the future...do we really know that?
 
I am not advocating releasing Naylor tomorrow. I am pointing out that his nearly 400 ABs in the majors do not profile so far to a guy that will have a job anywhere as a regular in 2 years with his position limitations. His youth gives him a bit of a bigger window, but 2 years ago Jake Bauers was doing a few positive things at 23 to go with some very concerning things and we thought time would only make him better. He didn't fix those weaknesses and he will be a DFA candidate soon.
And I think what most of us are saying is that 400 AB isn't nearly enough time to make that kind of statement. Especially since he's had just 100 AB here in Cleveland.

To me, Naylor looks like a promising young hitter with limited exposure to MLB pitching. We'll see what he does over his next thousand AB.
 
I have no idea how good a defensive first baseman Naylor is but at this point in time with the Indians 12th in the A.L. in scoring it appears Tito is willing to exchange some defense for offense. The first couple of weeks he had Gamel and Bauers starting against RHP's. He abandoned that when it was clear those guys can't hit.

Yesterday he moved Amed to shortstop against a lefty with Luplow in center and Chang at first. I wouldn't be surprised if he started playing Naylor at first against RHP's with Luplow in right and Amed in center. They have to find some offense.
 
And I think what most of us are saying is that 400 AB isn't nearly enough time to make that kind of statement. Especially since he's had just 100 AB here in Cleveland.

To me, Naylor looks like a promising young hitter with limited exposure to MLB pitching. We'll see what he does over his next thousand AB.
I agree. Naylor's maximum exit velocity this year puts him in the 97th percentile. Almost nobody hits the ball harder when they square it up. This kid is really strong. If he ever learns to hit the ball in the air - look out.

His problem is he's pressing. His walk rate has dropped from 9% as a rookie in 2019 to 4% in the early going this year. His chase percentage has increased from 34% to 41%. He's trying too hard and chasing too many bad pitches. He's averaging only 3.2 pitches per at-bat compared to 4.1 in 2019.

HIs total swing percentage has increased from 44% to 54% from his rookie year. He's just way too aggressive, hacking at too many balls and marginal strikes.

His career contact percentage on pitches in the strike zone is 89%. He has very good bat-to-ball skills when he swings at strikes. He rarely misses.

Also, his launch angle has increased from an extremely low 4.5% in 2019 to 11.2% this year and his opposite field percentage has increased from 24% to 40% over the same time frame. His fly ball percentage is up from 30% to 35%. He used to pull the ball a lot more and hit it on the ground more. It looks like he's trying to respond to the shift and use the whole field as well as get the ball in the air. He's getting there.

He's using more of the field and hitting more balls in the air. But his hard hit percentage has dropped from 42% to 32%, probably because he's chasing pitches out of the zone and hitting them weakly.

The guy has 70 power according to FanGraphs. He makes contact and uses the whole field. He's putting more balls in the air which will allow his power to play up. He just needs to relax at the plate and be more selective. I think he's trying too hard and swinging at too may bad pitches; the numbers clearly show it.

He's hitting .303 with the bases empty, .133 with runners on, .091 with RISP, and he's 0-for-3 with RISP and two out. He's clearly pressing with runners on base, just like Lindor last year. In the 10-3 loss to the Reds he came up with the bases loaded and two outs. He got jammed up and in on the second or third pitch IIRC and flied out to short center field. His other three at-bats were hits.

He's a 23-year-old WIP but if he continues to use the whole field and increase his launch angle while forcing himself to be patient and more selective he could be a very productive hitter. Whether he can curb his aggressiveness remains to be seen.
 
Santana and Pujols adapted much better to 1B because they played much tougher positions before moving there. Carlos played catcher and 3B while Pujols was at 2B and then 3B. Naylor has been an OF. His entire career has been about making his defense as unimportant as possible for a reason.
 
Santana and Pujols adapted much better to 1B because they played much tougher positions before moving there. Carlos played catcher and 3B while Pujols was at 2B and then 3B. Naylor has been an OF. His entire career has been about making his defense as unimportant as possible for a reason.
Naylor was actually at 1B before he became an OF
 
And I think what most of us are saying is that 400 AB isn't nearly enough time to make that kind of statement. Especially since he's had just 100 AB here in Cleveland.

To me, Naylor looks like a promising young hitter with limited exposure to MLB pitching. We'll see what he does over his next thousand AB.

I keep seeing people say he is a promising young hitter and I am just not sure why. Outside of a very high maximum exit velocity, what does he really do well? He has never shown power in his rise to the majors. He has never had a great walk rate. He did make a few top prospect lists back in the day because people believed his big body and bat speed could translate into power but that hasn't happened. Since this offense sucks and the team needs to get lucky I can back giving him the season to prove something. But the optimism seems to have little to back it.
 
I keep seeing people say he is a promising young hitter and I am just not sure why. Outside of a very high maximum exit velocity, what does he really do well? He has never shown power in his rise to the majors. He has never had a great walk rate. He did make a few top prospect lists back in the day because people believed his big body and bat speed could translate into power but that hasn't happened. Since this offense sucks and the team needs to get lucky I can back giving him the season to prove something. But the optimism seems to have little to back it.
What's not to like about a guy who makes a lot of hard contact and doesn't strike out much? (he was almost walking more than he struck out in AA and AAA)

That's what he's been at every level, and what I expect him to be once he gets settled in the majors.
 
Naylor was actually at 1B before he became an OF

That doesn't make you good at it. On the defensive spectrum it is the easiest position outside of DH. It is where they put the fat kid that can hit.
 
That doesn't make you good at it. On the defensive spectrum it is the easiest position outside of DH. It is where they put the fat kid that can hit.
I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I'm just giving you information that you seemed to be unaware of.
 
I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I'm just giving you information that you seemed to be unaware of.

I had looked up his defensive history before posting. The point of my original post was that Santana and Pujols had played challenging defensive positions before ending up at 1B. Naylor had played corner OF.
 
I had looked up his defensive history before posting. The point of my original post was that Santana and Pujols had played challenging defensive positions before ending up at 1B. Naylor had played corner OF.
I guess I'm still not seeing what you're saying since Naylor didn't play corner OF before ending up at 1B.

He played 1B and then moved to the OF.
 

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