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Browns 2021 Off-Season Thread

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

What Position Should the Browns Focus On Improving?

  • Wide Receiver

    Votes: 6 4.5%

  • Defensive End/Edge

    Votes: 47 35.6%

  • Defensive Tackle

    Votes: 14 10.6%

  • Cornerbacks!

    Votes: 14 10.6%

  • Safeties

    Votes: 14 10.6%

  • DBs in General

    Votes: 59 44.7%

  • Linebacker Corps

    Votes: 70 53.0%

  • Leg-Related Special Teams Personnel

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • Maine Coon

    Votes: 6 4.5%

  • Norwegian Forest Cat

    Votes: 5 3.8%
  • Total voters
    132
Randolphkeys said:
Here's the thing: reasons I hear not to give big money to Chubb are the same reasons other teams would be hesitant to give him a crazy contract.

Similarly, injury concerns being raised about Ward are the same concerns a stable franchise would be hesitant to give too much cap space to him in free agency.

So here we are, looking at a process that is complex with the most forward-thinking front office Berea has ever employed.

If another team makes a mistake, much like Jacksonville did with Schobert, this group will have a plan.
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Agreed, Chubb will get Henry money, Ward is not a top 5 corner, borderline top 10. He will get around 14-15 mill a year. He will get about 70% guaranteed, corners get bigger gurantees.

Remember Ward has a 5 year contract because he was a first rounder, (not to you Keys, just jumping off your statement, i know you know this stuff)

So Chubb is a free agent the year before Ward. This is not a either or. We will free up money for Chubb (we have the money, but i am sure Berry does something) and then free up the money for Baker and Ward.

I think OBJ is gone, Trettor is gone, and Conklin and/or Bitonio is gone.

Our line was able to perform well with replacements, we will keep building the depth and cut the 10 million dollar linemen and probably give a huge raise to Callahan. I could see us making him the highest paid non coordinator in the game, they should though, he is worth it.
 
Lee said:
Running backs cliff is usually 30, but lately they can be extended to 32. Chubb is pretty special, I think they give him his money. The elite running backs get extended and Chubb is in that group. You will see a contract that is basically a 2 or 3 year contract that they can get away from with very little dead money after 3, but it will be extended.

Henry just got 4 years 50 million, 12 mill in bonus, guaranteed the first 2 years, easy to get out of for 6 mill dead cap after 2 or 3 mill of dead cap after 3.

25.5 of the 50 fully guaranteed, I think Chubb will get something similar, maybe a bit more like 4/56 because its a newer contract, but Chubb isnt worth more than Henry, but about the same.
Click to expand...

Zeke is only 5 months older than Chubb and he's clearly not the same RB as he was a couple years ago.

I can see Chubb returning on a team-friendly deal, but if he thinks he's getting $50+ million in guaranteed money (like Zeke did)...not a chance.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Fixed the auto-correct. I remember calling Barea a draft sleeper before the 2006 draft. I still think it would have been fun watching him play off LeBron.

Anyways, I learned a lot about this front office in the Schobert negotiations. They have a hard pass amount on each player. They will also pivot into a new plan quickly if another team overvalues a Browns free agent.
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I agree... but I wonder how high of a price point we have on the best runner in the NFL, or one of the best coverage corners in the NFL. It won't be as easy to pass on these players as it is for an average player at a position of low importance.

I think Chubb is the more interesting one to me. If you're Andrew Berry, your outline before you start looking at things must have involved not paying at running back. So, with arguably the best running back in the NFL on your roster, how far from that original outline are you willing to deviate? I think it should be a significant deviation, which isn't unexpected as you move from building a team to contending.
 
Cement said:
Zeke is only 5 months older than Chubb and he's clearly not the same RB as he was a couple years ago.

I can see Chubb returning on a team-friendly deal, but if he thinks he's getting $50+ million in guaranteed money (like Zeke did)...not a chance.
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Zeke is the exception not the rule, the lack of offensive line hurt zeke too, then loss of his QB, but even with both of those, Zeke is clearly not the same back.

But that was a bad contract to the wrong RB. Zeke was over rated before his decline. 14-15 mill per, 55% guranteed, 4 years is about right for Chubb
 
Cement said:
Zeke is only 5 months older than Chubb and he's clearly not the same RB as he was a couple years ago.

I can see Chubb returning on a team-friendly deal, but if he thinks he's getting $50+ million in guaranteed money (like Zeke did)...not a chance.
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Zeke looked fine when Dak was healthy.
 
Cement said:
Zeke is only 5 months older than Chubb and he's clearly not the same RB as he was a couple years ago.

I can see Chubb returning on a team-friendly deal, but if he thinks he's getting $50+ million in guaranteed money (like Zeke did)...not a chance.
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Chubb has less than half the carries in the NFL than Zeke has.
 
CBBI said:
According to what?

PFF had Njoku with a 63.6 run blocking grade in 213 run blocking snaps and Hooper with a 58.9 run blocking grade in 353 run blocking snaps.

Edit: Didn't read the rest of the thread. I see this was discussed.
Click to expand...

Circling back to tight end real quick: PFF came out with a top 32 tight ends in the NFL article today:

www.pff.com

Tight End Rankings: The 32 best TEs entering the 2021 NFL season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce comes in at No. 1 in PFF's 2021 NFL tight end rankings.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

They have Hooper falling in their rankings because he disappointed a little last season. That's certainly fair, but again I feel it's important to note he played through injury. That looks bad on tape without context. They stand firm that he is a weapon in zone and underneath routes.

Meanwhile Njoku didn't chart, and that's with other teams who did place two tight ends on the list: Eagles, Patriots, Bucs, Giants, and Falcons. Njoku just isn't showing enough yet for some of the praise flying around. He needs to stay healthy and fulfill that vast potential.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Circling back to tight end real quick: PFF came out with a top 32 tight ends in the NFL article today:

www.pff.com

Tight End Rankings: The 32 best TEs entering the 2021 NFL season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce comes in at No. 1 in PFF's 2021 NFL tight end rankings.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

They have Hooper falling in their rankings because he disappointed a little last season. That's certainly fair, but again I feel it's important to note he played through injury. That looks bad on tape without context. They stand firm that he is a weapon in zone and underneath routes.

Meanwhile Njoku didn't chart, and that's with other teams who did place two tight ends on the list: Eagles, Patriots, Bucs, Giants, and Falcons. Njoku just isn't showing enough yet for some of the praise flying around. He needs to stay healthy and fulfill that vast potential.
Click to expand...
First take: I opened this in incognito mode out of reflex because I don't want it in my browser history or to give them my cookie/tracking info.

Second take: Wow, there's really only like seven good tight ends in the league... the position is pretty gross right now.

Third take: I think Hooper's a little low and the entire article has a massive slant towards receiving without distinguishing between position or responsibility.

Last takes: Where is Njoku, and that write-up on OJ Howard is pretty good. I didn't realize he had that high of a PFF grade at times, and that matches my eyes.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
First take: I opened this in incognito mode out of reflex because I don't want it in my browser history or to give them my cookie/tracking info.

Second take: Wow, there's really only like seven good tight ends in the league... the position is pretty gross right now.

Third take: I think Hooper's a little low and the entire article has a massive slant towards receiving without distinguishing between position or responsibility.

Last takes: Where is Njoku, and that write-up on OJ Howard is pretty good. I didn't realize he had that high of a PFF grade at times, and that matches my eyes.
Click to expand...

I'm about to uncork a flaming hot take. Before I do, I want to mention that I was a big David Njoku fan coming out of Miami and I wrote that off-season about how much I loved the pick.

David Njoku runs parallels to Kwame Brown syndrome in the media. He had sky-high expectations and keeps teasing the media with moments when he appears to "finally get it." But then, inevitably, something goes wrong.

In the end, Kwame hung around the NBA as an unspectacular big man for over a decade. But does anyone remember him as a success story? Njoku could be high on that list this time next year, but injuries and untapped potential never earns a free pass.
 
Randolphkeys said:
I'm about to uncork a flaming hot take. Before I do, I want to mention that I was a big David Njoku fan coming out of Miami and I wrote that off-season about how much I loved the pick.

David Njoku runs parallels to Kwame Brown syndrome in the media. He had sky-high expectations and keeps teasing the media with moments when he appears to "finally get it." But then, inevitably, something goes wrong.

In the end, Kwame hung around the NBA as an unspectacular big man for over a decade. But does anyone remember him as a success story? Njoku could be high on that list this time next year, but injuries and untapped potential never earns a free pass.
Click to expand...
I think the majority of NFL teams want someone who can play at the level David Njoku played last year.

I don't think a majority of NBA teams wanted Kwame Brown.

I appreciate the analogy. It's certainly a blind-spot of mine--the way expectations alter perception. In the DPJ thread, people were talking about how he overperformed for a sixth round pick and I'm just sitting there realizing that I tend not to view players through the lens of where they were selected or what media expectations there are for them.
 
Chubb is special and deserves top RB dollar. Will we give him that? Doubtful but he's within his right to expect it.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
In the DPJ thread, people were talking about how he overperformed for a sixth round pick and I'm just sitting there realizing that I tend not to view players through the lens of where they were selected or what media expectations there are for them.
Click to expand...

The way I view it is that, for the most part, draft capital equates to opportunity. If you're drafted in the first two days, you're going to get your shot in the NFL to be a starter. You're going to get multiple shots from the team that drafted you, especially if you're a first or second rounder.

A sixth round pick is guaranteed nothing and really has to earn any reps they get. So a sixth rounder earning snaps on a winning team could be said to have exceeded expectations, because most sixth round picks amount to nothing in the NFL.
 
Jack Brickman said:
The way I view it is that, for the most part, draft capital equates to opportunity. If you're drafted in the first two days, you're going to get your shot in the NFL to be a starter. You're going to get multiple shots from the team that drafted you, especially if you're a first or second rounder.

A sixth round pick is guaranteed nothing and really has to earn any reps they get. So a sixth rounder earning snaps on a winning team could be said to have exceeded expectations, because most sixth round picks amount to nothing in the NFL.
Click to expand...

Yeah agreed, plus there is just a depreciation of potential as each season passes. DPJ as a rookie essentially had the same impact on the offense as Njoku last season. He started a handful of games when injuries pressed him into action. He made some big catches for first downs, they both scored the same number of touchdowns. Nice players... but Njoku finished his fourth season with the Browns. When challenged to live up to his hype and beat out a day three depth tight end, he demanded a trade. That's just pretty underwhelming compared to what a guy like Noah Fant was able to do in just his second season last year.
 
With the rollover 20M and the cap ballooning back up next year(probably) + the overall flexibility we have, I think we can actually extend ANY and ALL of our main FA(Ward, Chubb, Baker, Teller, Harrison)

The issue will be I years 2 and 3 of those new deals, where something will have to give. But I believe, if they want to and think its the smart thing to do, they can "keep the band together" for another 2-3 seasons after this one.

That said, I doubt they will do that and will likely continue to exercise good control and will power in not creating a bad cap situation with little flexibility.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Yeah agreed, plus there is just a depreciation of potential as each season passes. DPJ as a rookie essentially had the same impact on the offense as Njoku last season. He started a handful of games when injuries pressed him into action. He made some big catches for first downs, they both scored the same number of touchdowns. Nice players... but Njoku finished his fourth season with the Browns. When challenged to live up to his hype and beat out a day three depth tight end, he demanded a trade. That's just pretty underwhelming compared to what a guy like Noah Fant was able to do in just his second season last year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no doubt Njoku never lived up to his draft capital, but at this point we know that. He's not going to make top TE money. But he can still be a useful NFL player, as he's proven when healthy. He's just never going to be Travis Kelce or George Kittle. But hey, guys like Jared Cook can still have long, productive NFL careers.
 
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