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2021 MLB Draft / College Baseball Thread

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Gson said:
A long extension is exactly as it sounds.. when a pitcher strides toward home plate.. he lets the ball fly around shoulder height... some higher..some lower.. with this guy.. his stride is longer therefore the ball releases from his hand closer to home plate. For him, it's about a foot closer.. that makes an average/slight above average velo FB arrive at home plate a tick sooner.. making it look faster than it actually is..

The downside is either loss of the release point and controll issues or strain on the flexor tendon making his pitching arm more fragile.. but.. if this is all he's ever known.. it might work for him... We'll see..
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Nah, his arm stroke is short enough and he appears to hide the ball very well with it. I think that has as much to do with his effectiveness as anything. Since he's not a power pitcher I'd venture to say that a cumulation of things help him be effective. His stride, hiding the ball, consistent release point, high spin rates, etc.

Edited to say that he doesn't appear to be a high effort thrower either so his 6'0 frame might not be a concern. That's only an observation on my part.
 
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Derek said:
If they’re not ready, they’re not really depth.
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When everyone is healthy the 9 I listed is pretty good depth. I didn't even include Allen because he has struggled so heavily recently. There is a 1-2 year gap from the rest of the crowd that I mentioned. I don't know if it's possible to have enough quality depth to overcome your top 3 SP going down with injury simultaneously. That's a huge hurdle and I think they've done as good a job as can be expected. Bottom line, there's SP depth, and in 1-2 years it's going to be ridiculously deep IMO.
 
Interesting - read an article talking about strikeout to walk ratio among college arms published May 11th and three Tribe draftees show up in the top 25:

www.baseballamerica.com

2021 MLB Draft Stock Watch: Continued College Questions At The Top? — College Baseball, MLB Draft, Prospects - Baseball America

Carlos Collazo details the general unease among teams currently evaluating the college prospects at the top of the 2021 draft class.
www.baseballamerica.com www.baseballamerica.com

Davenport, Dion and Mace listed. I guess this is a stat the Tribe scouts value.
 
Interesting to compare draft strategies with two other small market bellwether teams: Tampa and Oakland. Oakland drafted 2 pitchers in top 10 picks while Tampa drafted zero pitchers in their top six picks.
 
1) Pitchers at all levels drop like flies.

2) Everybody needs more pitchers than they can plan for, because of #1.

3) Ergo, having a lot of pitchers means that you always have product in stock in a sellers market. Its never a bad thing to corner a market.

4) One good pitcher in trade can be used to fill up nearly one fourth of a roster. Need a RF, trade a pitcher. Need a 3B, trade a pitcher.

5) You can never have enough pitching, and when you dont, call the Indians.
 
CDAV45 said:
When everyone is healthy the 9 I listed is pretty good depth. I didn't even include Allen because he has struggled so heavily recently. There is a 1-2 year gap from the rest of the crowd that I mentioned. I don't know if it's possible to have enough quality depth to overcome your top 3 SP going down with injury simultaneously. That's a huge hurdle and I think they've done as good a job as can be expected. Bottom line, there's SP depth, and in 1-2 years it's going to be ridiculously deep IMO.
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I don’t agree that we have pretty good depth when healthy, but I agree with your overall message that we will in the near future.
 
Derek said:
I don’t agree that we have pretty good depth when healthy, but I agree with your overall message that we will in the near future.
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I can certainly respect your take even I we don't agree. I'm curious how/why you don't feel like we have good depth currently? A lot has been asked from guys that missed the entire year of 2020(Mejia, Garza, Hentges, Morgan) or the development from a 162 game schedule(Quantrill, McKenzie). I'm actually very impressed.
 
Possible ETAs for Indians CURRENT pitching prospects -
Espino - 2023
Hankins - 2022/2023
Wolf - 2023
Torres - 2023/2024
Burns - 2023/2024
Vargas - 2023
Cantillo - 2022

EDIT: Also forgot Logan T. Allen

Then you add...
Williams
Nikhazy
Mace
Webb
Bibee
Davenport
Leftwich
Boone
Dion
Aleman

Not all of our new additions will stick in the rotation, but that's pretty damn good depth.
 
DickyLeftridge said:
Sorry, was thinking Cantillo. My mistake.

BACK TO THE GAS

CAN'T HAVE AN ARMS RACE UNLESS YOU FILL UP THE GAS TANK
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No apology needed. I just thought you might want to know.

Cantillo and Logan T. Allen fit right into Cleveland's ideal pitching prospects. Decent stuff with very good control. They're in the right organization to realize their dream.
 
CATS44 said:
1) Pitchers at all levels drop like flies.

2) Everybody needs more pitchers than they can plan for, because of #1.

3) Ergo, having a lot of pitchers means that you always have product in stock in a sellers market. Its never a bad thing to corner a market.

4) One good pitcher in trade can be used to fill up nearly one fourth of a roster. Need a RF, trade a pitcher. Need a 3B, trade a pitcher.

5) You can never have enough pitching, and when you dont, call the Indians.
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We’ve seen that play out with star pitchers nearing FA like Kluber, Bauer, and Clevinger. And also with an established vet like Carrasco.

Haven’t really seen us trade from our stock or surplus of young major league or major league ready arms yet. Maybe that happens soon(most likely with Plesac first) or maybe we have to wait a little longer until Plesac and Civale have more years of success under their belt but are approaching FA with no extension on the horizon. Or (hopefully not) with Bieber.

We’ve yet to see a deal though were we trade from the range of pitchers between Double A through 1-3 years in the majors for a similar or comparable bat. Maybe that happens soon or maybe we just continue to let our current young major league bats develop and younger bats move through the minors
 
MirORich said:
Could be a one year transitional approach. They know the data and makeup of the pitchers they have had consistent developmental success with. With the loss of scouting opps due to Covid and the downsizing of live scouting, they may be still in the lab creating a new model/profile/approach for draft hitters that they felt they needed more time to tweak. In the meantime, they double down on s strategy they have proven to be able to capitalize on.
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This is a particularly astute observation in my opinion. It’s been interesting to see how pro teams handle the covid year in their scouting across the various sports leagues.

Perhaps the data on pitchers is simply more safe right now. Seems like that likely informed our approach to some degree considering they didn’t just go after pitching, they went after college pitching.
 
CDAV45 said:
I can certainly respect your take even I we don't agree. I'm curious how/why you don't feel like we have good depth currently? A lot has been asked from guys that missed the entire year of 2020(Mejia, Garza, Hentges, Morgan) or the development from a 162 game schedule(Quantrill, McKenzie). I'm actually very impressed.
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I just feel like if they can’t give us actual quality innings, they aren’t actually depth.

We’re basically just Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Quantrill, and McKenzie with Quantrill and McKenzie being rather shaky.

All the other guys have been worse than Plutko, who is my baseline for qualifying as depth.
 
Derek said:
I just feel like if they can’t give us actual quality innings, they aren’t actually depth.

We’re basically just Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Quantrill, and McKenzie with Quantrill and McKenzie being rather shaky.

All the other guys have been worse than Plutko, who is my baseline for qualifying as depth.
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I agree with this.

That said, they *could* be depth as soon as later in the year or in 2022 IF this experience in this crucible sharpens them to the point of being able to put up quality starts(of the traditional definition) on a consistent, more often than not basis.

Right now, many of them are just combining eating innings(not always well) and gaining experience. Whether the experience translates to consistent success in the future remains to be seen and until it does, I also don’t know if I’d call it depth

Organizational Developmental Depth perhaps but not usable Major League Depth yet
 
Derek said:
I just feel like if they can’t give us actual quality innings, they aren’t actually depth.

We’re basically just Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Quantrill, and McKenzie with Quantrill and McKenzie being rather shaky.

All the other guys have been worse than Plutko, who is my baseline for qualifying as depth.
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I agree it's a stretch to say we have depth THIS year. At least this first half. But I think we are well stocked for the foreseeable future. That was even before this draft. The forced PT for guys like Mejia, Morgan, Logan Allen, and Hentges IMO only improves or helps shake out that depth sooner.

But it is true we did not have starting pitching depth this year. It's also true our depth was particularly taxed this year with our top 3 starters down with injury. But I never saw this year as anything more than a transitional year to get to next year anyway. The injuries just made that more clear and accelerated the transition.
 
Derek said:
I just feel like if they can’t give us actual quality innings, they aren’t actually depth.

We’re basically just Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Quantrill, and McKenzie with Quantrill and McKenzie being rather shaky.

All the other guys have been worse than Plutko, who is my baseline for qualifying as depth.
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At times they have been worse than Plutko, but they've also been better than Plutko could ever hope to be. There is upside with all of these guys except for maybe Morgan. When you consider the lost 2020 season for these guys, I think we're sitting very well for next year's rotation.

Edited to say that we should move this conversation to another thread to avoid clustering up the draft info. Sorry folks!
 
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