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Indians Ownership Discussion

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DickyLeftridge said:
Interesting question. I think the FO would have resigned Bauer and likely Clevinger. I think they would have been equipped with the necessary $ to attempt to resign Lindor years before it came to the tipping point last offseason. If they were still unable to do so, I have a feeling they would have done the same thing and traded him. And a one-off situation where, it would be much easier to understand that, no this guy is really demanding way too much money for a contending team to mortgage on 1 player.

Do I know these things? No. I'm speculating. Does anyone know my speculation wouldn't have been accurate? Also no.
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I can tell you with near certainty that they would not have made either of those signings (Clevinger and Bauer). Clev wasn’t traded because of his contract, he was traded because he’s not reliable (in many senses). Bauer was never going to sign an extension either. He was always going to hunt out the biggest short-term deal he could find.

They also offered Lindor a record-setting contract. He was never going to sign an extension here.
 
Derek said:
I can tell you with near certainty that they would not have made either of those signings (Clevinger and Bauer). Clev wasn’t traded because of his contract, he was traded because he’s not reliable (in many senses). Bauer was never going to sign an extension either. He was always going to hunt out the biggest short-term deal he could find.

They also offered Lindor a record-setting contract. He was never going to sign an extension here.
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And I am so glad the Indians didn’t sign any of these 3 players. Look how they are doing elsewhere...
 
It is impossible to know what having additional budget options would mean, but if you think you have competent decision makers, it should be better to give them more money to use how they see fit.
 
Derek said:
I can tell you with near certainty that they would not have made either of those signings (Clevinger and Bauer). Clev wasn’t traded because of his contract, he was traded because he’s not reliable (in many senses). Bauer was never going to sign an extension either. He was always going to hunt out the biggest short-term deal he could find.

They also offered Lindor a record-setting contract. He was never going to sign an extension here.
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Yeah, actually you can’t. Well let me give you some credit. Unless you were involved in the negotiations or deliberations about these negotiations?

Were you?

A non answer will tell us that you were not.
 
DickyLeftridge said:
Yeah, actually you can’t. Well let me give you some credit. Unless you were involved in the negotiations or deliberations about these negotiations?

Were you?

A non answer will tell us that you were not.
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The organization was not interested in keeping Clevinger around. We chose to trade him rather than even try to negotiate.

The other part, about us signing Bauer, really doesn't even need to be talked about.

Also, you confused "near certainty" with "certainty" so.. .yeah... at least try to come correct next time you want to swing so hard at a fellow poster.
 
I agree on two pitchers for reason mention, but to say Lindor was a record setting contract, I believe that was a Indians record setting contract, not market setting……..I think they could have got him for much less then he signed with the Mets, but higher then what he was offered by the Indians, I’m guessing somewhere in between……..Keep in mind I’m talking a few years ago…..
 
cliffdawg said:
I agree on two pitchers for reason mention, but to say Lindor was a record setting contract, I believe that was a Indians record setting contract, not market setting……..I think they could have got him for much less then he signed with the Mets, but higher then what he was offered by the Indians, I’m guessing somewhere in between……..Keep in mind I’m talking a few years ago…..
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The rumors were it was the largest pre-arbitration contract extension ever offered at that time.

That's not just an "Indians record."

Oh, and for what it's worth, that's nothing new for this team. I think we signed Kluber to the largest ever pre-arb contract extension for a pitcher as well.

Also, I haven't heard a single person who agrees with your take--it seems pretty clear from everyone reporting that Lindor wanted to get to free agency and wasn't going to settle for an extension.
 
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No owner in Cleveland is gonna hand out a $300 mil contract. Nor a contract that averages $30 mil a year.

This isn't basketball, where one player can carry an entire team...and this franchise simply cannot generate enough revenue to pay one player that much and still have enough left to pay 40 competent players to carry his water.

We can complain about our players leaving when they hit free agency, but consider this....

We almost always have gotten the best years of their careers at a minute fraction of what they get paid later, and we get more value in return when we trade them.

We've been hurt more from extending some of them than we have from trading them.

While there was a lot of crying when we traded Bauer, Kluber, Clevinger, Cookie, Lee, Lindor, Colon, Lofton, Choo, CC, Robbie, and Justice, how many would want to take any of those trades back?

There may be others, but the only two trades in which we traded a soon to be free agent that didn't end up favoring us...usually by a huge margin...are Victor and Peralta, and 90% of the fans WANTED Peralta to be traded.

The best thing that has happened to this franchise in this century is that Larry Dolan paid way too much to buy it two decades ago. What we have seen play out is his vision, which he announced at his first presser as owner. He said he was gonna have a team built on pitching, pitching, pitching.
 
cliffdawg said:
I agree on two pitchers for reason mention, but to say Lindor was a record setting contract, I believe that was a Indians record setting contract, not market setting……..I think they could have got him for much less then he signed with the Mets, but higher then what he was offered by the Indians, I’m guessing somewhere in between……..Keep in mind I’m talking a few years ago…..
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Lindor was offered a contract larger than anyone else ever has been pre-arb player at the time... He didn't take it. That means he was waiting for free agency/waiting to a bigger market offered him more money. We weren't gonna sign him for less than what the Mets have him since he wasn't willing to sign for less than top dollar. The Indians sure did try though...

DickyLeftridge said:
Yeah, actually you can’t. Well let me give you some credit. Unless you were involved in the negotiations or deliberations about these negotiations?

Were you?

A non answer will tell us that you were not.
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Indians are a tight lipped organization, so no one knows exactly everything except what was publicly stated...

That being said, Lindor contract was publicly stated and Bauer publicly stated he wasn't going to sign any long term deals. So both of them put @Derek to be correct in this case. Bimbo (who is an insider) stated that Clev was traded because he didn't fit the culture the organization wanted in the clubhouse. He's had a bunch of minor off the field issues that have bothered the organization.

Not sure how you can say the words you did without throwing yourself in a deep hole...
 
Now that being stated, if we want to discuss what the Indians payroll increase would have been like, it mostly would have effected who we signed in free agency and maybe who we gave second extensions to.

One moment I think change would have happened was in 2015. We traded Joey Wendle for Brandon Moss. I personally thought we needed Nelson Cruz... Which if we increased payroll, we may have been able to signed Cruz by outbidding Seattle for him, while keeping Wendle.

The FO wouldn't and shouldn't have changed their strategies, but they would have spent extra money here and there on free agents, like going for a Cruz over Moss type of deal.
 
sportscoach said:
Lindor was offered a contract larger than anyone else ever has been pre-arb player at the time... He didn't take it. That means he was waiting for free agency/waiting to a bigger market offered him more money. We weren't gonna sign him for less than what the Mets have him since he wasn't willing to sign for less than top dollar. The Indians sure did try though...



Indians are a tight lipped organization, so no one knows exactly everything except what was publicly stated...

That being said, Lindor contract was publicly stated and Bauer publicly stated he wasn't going to sign any long term deals. So both of them put @Derek to be correct in this case. Bimbo (who is an insider) stated that Clev was traded because he didn't fit the culture the organization wanted in the clubhouse. He's had a bunch of minor off the field issues that have bothered the organization.

Not sure how you can say the words you did without throwing yourself in a deep hole...
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The entire impetus behind this portion of this discussion was to "speculate" for "shits and giggles." Please consider that context. That was the post I originally responded to. If Bimbo shared info about why Clev was traded, I'll believe it and retract my speculation as it relates to Clevinger. I've been here for 2 months and was not aware of that detail. But it does make all the sense in the world to me re: Clevinger's MO while here.
 
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