Indians Ownership Discussion

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Just speaking for myself but I prefer a thoughtful, intelligent discussion based on known facts over speculation for shits and giggles. That being said, if I see something that seems to be baseless speculation it's easy to ignore it and move on.

But when we have a few days off with no baseball it's interesting to look back and speculate about what might have been if different decisions were made.

So now we seem to be at a crossroads of the season with 10 games starting tonight against first or second place teams. Still no Bieber or Civale and I'm not sure if Plesac is 100% or still being eased into it. Naylor is out for the year; Luplow and Rosario are not back yet. Mike Morgan and his 8.44 ERA is our lead-off pitcher for the second half. Can the Tribe keep their heads above water until they get the wounded warriors back and the schedule eases up?

A lot depends on Morgan, Quantrill, Plesac, McKenzie, and Mejia. Mejia is supposed to start against Houston next week. In his last outing in Columbus Mejia gave up four home runs in 2.2 innings. I can only hope he was working on a new approach. Thinking about him starting against the Astros is terrifying.

I read that Bieber still isn't throwing and isn't expected back until late August at the earliest. If it goes any longer it becomes a question of whether they should risk bringing him back at all if it's only for a few starts. The Indians are going to need some big contributions from guys who were not in the plans at the start of the season.

 

[cliffdawg]

You guys are probably right on Lindor I’m definitely not one to act like I’m in the know, I’m just speculating if DG was the owner………

 

[AZ_]

Save us Dan!

 

[BMAN]

This thread sucks.

 

[AZ_]

With Lindor, Bauer and Clevenger back in the fold for around another $100 million per year, feels like the team would only be a right handed power bat away from contention.

 

[cliffdawg]

With Lindor, Bauer and Clevenger back in the fold for around another $100 million per year, feels like the team would only be a right handed power bat away from contention.

 

[cliffdawg]

The rumors were it was the largest pre-arbitration contract extension ever offered at that time.

That's not just an "Indians record."

Oh, and for what it's worth, that's nothing new for this team. I think we signed Kluber to the largest ever pre-arb contract extension for a pitcher as well.

Also, I haven't heard a single person who agrees with your take--it seems pretty clear from everyone reporting that Lindor wanted to get to free agency and wasn't going to settle for an extension.

I have a question and then I’m done with this topic, you and another poster mention largest pre-arb contract ,was that contract and line with the market at the time….Or was it just the biggest pre-arb contract, just asking for my knowledge……..

PS …….My posts are just for conversation fun I don’t try to be the smartest guy in the room, I’m just a big fan of all Cleveland sports…

 

[BimboColesHair]

At the time of the offer Frankie had less than 2 years of MLB service time. Record at the time for a pre-arb extension with less than 2 years of service time was Andrelton Simmons at 68 million.

Record, at the time, for any pre-arb extension was Trout at 144 million in 2014. He had a little less than 4 years of service time.

The offer on the table to Frankie the winter of 2016/spring of 2017, depending on who you talk to, ranged from 125 to 150 million, with more people leaning toward the later being the number come spring of 2017 before Frankie said no.

The now record high for a pre-arb extension is Fernando Tatis Jr, right at a year of service time he got 340 million in 2021.

So again. At the time, the Indians offered a guy a historically rich contract for his limited track record.

 

[bs80]

At the time of the offer Frankie had less than 2 years of MLB service time. Record at the time for a pre-arb extension with less than 2 years of service time was Andrelton Simmons at 68 million.

Record, at the time, for any pre-arb extension was Trout at 144 million in 2014. He had a little less than 4 years of service time.

The offer on the table to Frankie the winter of 2016/spring of 2017, depending on who you talk to, ranged from 125 to 150 million, with more people leaning toward the later being the number come spring of 2017 before Frankie said no.

The now record high for a pre-arb extension is Fernando Tatis Jr, right at a year of service time he got 340 million in 2021.

So again. At the time, the Indians offered a guy a historically rich contract for his limited track record.

Thanks, I appreciate the facts. How many years did that proposed 125 to 150 million offer to Frankie cover, though?

 

[Lee]

At the time of the offer Frankie had less than 2 years of MLB service time. Record at the time for a pre-arb extension with less than 2 years of service time was Andrelton Simmons at 68 million.

Record, at the time, for any pre-arb extension was Trout at 144 million in 2014. He had a little less than 4 years of service time.

The offer on the table to Frankie the winter of 2016/spring of 2017, depending on who you talk to, ranged from 125 to 150 million, with more people leaning toward the later being the number come spring of 2017 before Frankie said no.

The now record high for a pre-arb extension is Fernando Tatis Jr, right at a year of service time he got 340 million in 2021.

So again. At the time, the Indians offered a guy a historically rich contract for his limited track record.

340 mill pre-arb? Is this Fernando Tats Jr guy any good? lol

 

[sportscoach]

Thanks, I appreciate the facts. How many years did that proposed 125 to 150 million offer to Frankie cover, though?

Indians normally do the regular years plus one or two years of free agency... So I would say that deal would have went through 22/23 area, probably through 23

 

[bs80]

Indians normally do the regular years plus one or two years of free agency... So I would say that deal would have went through 22/23 area, probably through 23

I see, so we were likely offering him 125 to 150 million over 7 years then? How much higher would that number have had to be to get him to agree? I guess there's no way to know, but the only reason I'm hung up on this is that it seems to me that more often than not, pre-arbitration extensions end up being great value to the team. Intuitively, this makes sense since a young player would be much more willing to leave money on the table in exchange for security. And that would probably be the most logical way for the FO to make use of a higher payroll. I'm sure some pre-arb deals would blow up in the team's face, but I think the expected value from orchestrating such deals is a net positive. Especially since the extension likely captures the players' prime years while not being on the hook for the shit end of their careers.

 

[Derek]

I see, so we were likely offering him 125 to 150 million over 7 years then? How much higher would that number have had to be to get him to agree? I guess there's no way to know, but the only reason I'm hung up on this is that it seems to me that more often than not, pre-arbitration extensions end up being great value to the team. Intuitively, this makes sense since a young player would be much more willing to leave money on the table in exchange for security. And that would probably be the most logical way for the FO to make use of a higher payroll. I'm sure some pre-arb deals would blow up in the team's face, but I think the expected value from orchestrating such deals is a net positive. Especially since the extension likely captures the players' prime years while not being on the hook for the shit end of their careers.

Based on the numbers from baseball reference, Lindor will end up making about $120 million from 2017-2023 (the same time period that would have been covered by the $125-150 million extension we offered).

When taking into account that Lindor had to stay healthy and play well in order to even reach $120 million over that span, I think it’s safe to say he was hell bent on getting to the open market as soon as possible and inking a 10+ year mega deal.

 

[sportscoach]

I see, so we were likely offering him 125 to 150 million over 7 years then? How much higher would that number have had to be to get him to agree? I guess there's no way to know, but the only reason I'm hung up on this is that it seems to me that more often than not, pre-arbitration extensions end up being great value to the team. Intuitively, this makes sense since a young player would be much more willing to leave money on the table in exchange for security. And that would probably be the most logical way for the FO to make use of a higher payroll. I'm sure some pre-arb deals would blow up in the team's face, but I think the expected value from orchestrating such deals is a net positive. Especially since the extension likely captures the players' prime years while not being on the hook for the shit end of their careers.

Most of their extensions have been positive... I think Outside of Kipnis's last couple years and Pronks contract, majority of the time it's been positive.

 

[Sebastian]

I keep telling myself I’m done posting in here. This one’s on me.

No, please DO post.