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Cleveland Browns 2021 Regular Season: RIP

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Hill was held to under 65 yards only six times last year during the regular season (one of which was 64 yards). In the playoffs last year, Hill went for 110, 172, and 73.
 
DJTJ said:
If it wasn’t man, no one is responsible for anything more than an area.

And if you don’t know who was responsible for the area, you can’t blame any individual person.
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you're right. whole secondary played GREAT
 
Triplethreat said:
you're right. whole secondary played GREAT
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Im actually in your boat.

Denzel Ward is a considerably better man corner than he is a zone corner.

It’s not our scheme, and should never be anyone’s scheme versus KC.
 
So, I was paying very close attention to this over the entire game. And I posted about it during the game in the game thread.

Ward was lined up across Hill OR Kelce for almost every single snap. He was moving back & forth between the two all game long.

From what I recall, he gave up a few receptions, each for under 10-15 ish yards.

The problem was, whichever one Ward wasn't covering on the particular play, typically ended up making the reception. Kelce roasted our LBs. Almost half of Hill's yards came on that fluke bomb play while being covered (perfectly) by JJ3.

Again, Ward was fine yesterday. I personally wouldn't say he was great, but he definitely wasn't bad. I'd say the same about Newsome, Hill and JJ3.

The LBs were a total disaster in coverage all game long. As was Stewart. And Greedy may as well have not been on the field for the few snaps he played.
 
bob2the2nd said:
i do not give a shit what thornhill was doing. period. as i said. Thornhill could have been bashing him with a fucking 2x4. Its schwartz's job to catch the ball that hits him in the hands. He didnt.
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What a fucking stupid take. Players make plays both on offense and defense. The fact you put no context into why Schwartz didnt catch the ball shows that your opinion is the hottest of the shitty hot takes.

Thornhill made a great play...move the fuck on already, not Schwartz's or Bakers fault in this case.
 
I'd like to see us just try to man up more instead of defaulting to the zone scheme no matter what happens during the game.

It feels like our defense does not adjust quickly and sticks to the game plan no matter what the game dictates.
 
PFF grades from yesterday..

Ward graded out at 74.4 overall with a grade of 71.8 in rush defense and 72.8 in coverage
Newsome graded out at 72.6 overall with a grade of 64.4 in rush defense and 72.4 in coverage
Hill graded out at 59.9 overall with a grade of 73.4 in rush defense, 72.0 in pass rush, and 52.9 in coverage
Johnson graded out at 55.7 overall with a grade of 62.2 in rush defense and 55.4 in coverage
Stewart graded out at 68.8 overall with a grade of 68.4 in rush defense, 58.3 in pass rush, and 65.0 in coverage
Harrison graded out at 29.2 overall with a grade of 60.0 in rush defense and 48.2 in coverage

I'm just sayin...
 
Los216 said:
I'd like to see us just try to man up more instead of defaulting to the zone scheme no matter what happens during the game.

It feels like our defense does not adjust quickly and sticks to the game plan no matter what the game dictates.
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I think you have to play a lot of zone against Kansas City. You can't play man concepts against Mahomes and Tyreek and expect to be successful.

I think the teams who play the best against KC don't concern themselves with "winning" in coverage. Pick a coverage that takes away the big play and forces Kansas City to run a lot of plays. This allows you to "win" with your defensive line. And, we actually did that a lot--we got pressure on Mahomes all day, but he was stepping up and scrambling early on. He took a big hit on one play.

I think that's a winning strategy that you can evolve from.

I'd like to see a few more times where we bring a safety or linebacker into a delayed blitz, or up into a spy role on third down. You know Mahomes is going to drop super deep. You know that's going to allow Clowney and Myles to beat their tackles. Mahomes is going to step up. If your DT's beat the interior, game over. If Mahomes can take off, you need someone there who can match him. I'd love to see that be the safety who's on the side of the field that Tyreek isn't. Safety A gives help to the CB on Hill. Safety B steps up into a shallow zone, spying Mahomes.
 
33Y0 said:
PFF grades from yesterday..

Ward graded out at 74.4 overall with a grade of 71.8 in rush defense and 72.8 in coverage
Newsome graded out at 72.6 overall with a grade of 64.4 in rush defense and 72.4 in coverage
Hill graded out at 59.9 overall with a grade of 73.4 in rush defense, 72.0 in pass rush, and 52.9 in coverage
Johnson graded out at 55.7 overall with a grade of 62.2 in rush defense and 55.4 in coverage
Stewart graded out at 68.8 overall with a grade of 68.4 in rush defense, 58.3 in pass rush, and 65.0 in coverage
Harrison graded out at 29.2 overall with a grade of 60.0 in rush defense and 48.2 in coverage

I'm just sayin...
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I'll continue to beat the "PFF isn't good at this" drum.

JJ3 was playing really well all game, and had one bad play go against him.

MJ Stewart played like dogshit out there all game, and refused to move up and tackle people.
 
Lee said:
The secondary got beat, missed Harrison, Delpit, and was good until the 4th quarter and yet, played 100 times better than the quality of some of your posts.
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uhhh thanks?
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I think you have to play a lot of zone against Kansas City. You can't play man concepts against Mahomes and Tyreek and expect to be successful.

I think the teams who play the best against KC don't concern themselves with "winning" in coverage. Pick a coverage that takes away the big play and forces Kansas City to run a lot of plays. This allows you to "win" with your defensive line. And, we actually did that a lot--we got pressure on Mahomes all day, but he was stepping up and scrambling early on. He took a big hit on one play.

I think that's a winning strategy that you can evolve from.

I'd like to see a few more times where we bring a safety or linebacker into a delayed blitz, or up into a spy role on third down. You know Mahomes is going to drop super deep. You know that's going to allow Clowney and Myles to beat their tackles. Mahomes is going to step up. If your DT's beat the interior, game over. If Mahomes can take off, you need someone there who can match him. I'd love to see that be the safety who's on the side of the field that Tyreek isn't. Safety A gives help to the CB on Hill. Safety B steps up into a shallow zone, spying Mahomes.
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Our defense definitely played well enough for us to win that game. We lost because we made three big mistakes on offense and the Chiefs didn't. Gillan basically spotted the best offense in the NFL a touchdown in a game we lost by four points. You can't do that against the Chiefs.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I think you have to play a lot of zone against Kansas City. You can't play man concepts against Mahomes and Tyreek and expect to be successful.

I think the teams who play the best against KC don't concern themselves with "winning" in coverage. Pick a coverage that takes away the big play and forces Kansas City to run a lot of plays. This allows you to "win" with your defensive line. And, we actually did that a lot--we got pressure on Mahomes all day, but he was stepping up and scrambling early on. He took a big hit on one play.

I think that's a winning strategy that you can evolve from.

I'd like to see a few more times where we bring a safety or linebacker into a delayed blitz, or up into a spy role on third down. You know Mahomes is going to drop super deep. You know that's going to allow Clowney and Myles to beat their tackles. Mahomes is going to step up. If your DT's beat the interior, game over. If Mahomes can take off, you need someone there who can match him. I'd love to see that be the safety who's on the side of the field that Tyreek isn't. Safety A gives help to the CB on Hill. Safety B steps up into a shallow zone, spying Mahomes.
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Why can't you be successful playing more man against KC? Outside of Hill and Kelce who do you even have to worry about?

You don't have to play man the entire game but you should be playing more man that zone for the simple fact that you can double either Hill or Kelce and at least force Mahomes to have to throw it to them in double coverage as opposed to a zone.

I think I can live with double teaming Kelce for most of the game and letting Denzel Ward stick on Hill while occasionally giving Ward some help. The key to me is always doubling Kelce no matter what because he is the key to all of their underneath stuff. Once Kelce gets comfortable in those holes in your zone your entire defense is broken down now.

One thing that Tony Romo pointed out very well was how every play when Mahomes looks at the field he basically picks which guy is getting more coverage Hill or Kelce. Whoever is getting doubled he'll just look at the other guy first and when you're playing a soft zone you're just giving Hill or Kelce easy paths to receptions because all they have to do is sit right in the zone and Mahomes being as good as he is doesn't have to think about where to go for the ball. You basically made the choice for him.

So is Denzel Ward good enough to stick with Tyreke Hill and shut him down? No but I'd rather put one of the best corners in the game on Hill and then throw more bodies at Kelce.

If I'm going to lose to KC it's going to be by either Hill or Kelce going off while the other one gets contained or maybe you just force their other receivers to step up and make plays.
 
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