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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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Gson said:
The admission that Amed Rosario's defensive shortcomings will lead to his demise.. means it's a good time to start considering trade scenarios that have his defense at SS presented as an "improvement" to a team that has a need for a hit-first SS..

That is.. the Cincinnati Reds..

A team that the Guardians have a pretty good history of deal making.. Thoughts?
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I hope they move Amed as well. His cost is going up and he is just not that good and it is a position where they have other guys to try.
 
If the Orioles were willing to trade Cedric Mullins, what package of current players and prospects would you give up for him? For example, would you be willing to put Civale in such a deal?
 
I'm all for trading Amed, but only if it makes us significantly better next year.

But you have to begin with the premise that replacing Amed is a big downgrade at short.

There are only two players on the Reds that I would consider moving Amed for...Winker and Stephenson. (India is untouchable)

It would take more than Amed, but I wouldn't be willing to add anybody who I view as a significant piece for next year.

Stephenson would fill two needs...an offensive catcher that could share duties with Hedges and be our catcher of the future...and a RH platoon/plan B at first.
 
Boomgoesthedynamite said:
If the Orioles were willing to trade Cedric Mullins, what package of current players and prospects would you give up for him? For example, would you be willing to put Civale in such a deal?
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Civale doesn't fit Baltimore's situation.

He is in the same boat as Mullins...by the time the Os can be competitive again, they will both be near their end of control.

Baltimore needs multiple pieces that fit their next window of contention.

They would have more interest in Espino.
 
Criznit said:
FWIW - I feel Amed and Plesac are our best bonafide ML trade chips.

That would be quite the opening salvo in the right deal.
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I posted a BTV trade with both Plesac and Freeman included.. I think
it helps solve 2 of the 5 principle problems the Guardians will have
going into 2022...

-Immediate/Starting Corner OF'er
-Future starting OF'er (because it's always a problem)
-40 Man Roster Slot Opening
-SP (because it's always a problem)
-Catcher who can hit

Starting SS to be Gimenez.. Starting 2B to be Yu.. Ernie Clement and
Owen Miller to provide depth. With Bradley and JRam, this creates a
six man rotation at 1B, 2B, 3B & SS.
 
CATS44 said:
I'm all for trading Amed, but only if it makes us significantly better next year.

But you have to begin with the premise that replacing Amed is a big downgrade at short.

There are only two players on the Reds that I would consider moving Amed for...Winker and Stephenson. (India is untouchable)

It would take more than Amed, but I wouldn't be willing to add anybody who I view as a significant piece for next year.

Stephenson would fill two needs...an offensive catcher that could share duties with Hedges and be our catcher of the future...and a RH platoon/plan B at first.
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Cincinnati is NOT trading Stephenson.. the end..
 
Boomgoesthedynamite said:
If the Orioles were willing to trade Cedric Mullins, what package of current players and prospects would you give up for him? For example, would you be willing to put Civale in such a deal?
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I think so, but would offer a fatter Plesac themed deal first.

Now here is a wrinkle.. Plesac and Civale for Mullins??? Or if too fat - Plesac and Morris?

Maybe someone like Xzavion Curry is a nice addition in a deal?
 
CATS44 said:
Again, average is not bad. Average is what most of our young MIF prospects will never become. And I wouldn't write Amed off as a long term piece quite yet. Lets see how he looks if the org stops messing around with him and lets him concentrate on playing shortstop every day.

What you want from a MIF is a hit tool, speed, and defense. Here is how fangraphs last rated our four top shortstops...

Amed...60/60/60...65 overall.
Gimenez...55/55/60...50 overall.
Arias....35/55/60....50 overall.
Rocchio....60/60/70...50 overall.

Some of those will change for the last two once this season is taken into account....and the FO undoubtedly has its own internal grades.

But on the surface...

Amed is the superior player at this point in time.

Rocchio has the best chance of being an elite defender.

Gimenez has a better chance of being a productive player next year than Arias.

***********

Somebody will undoubtedly mention power, although power does not translate to MLB as well as hit tool does.

This season at AAA...

Gimenez...215 ISO.
Arias.........170 ISO.

At Akron...

Rocchio....212 ISO.
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This team - even with some upgrades - won't be an elite offense. Which is fine, you can win with pitching and defense. To do that, you start up the middle.

Hedges checks the box. So does Straw. But Amed at SS doesn't cut it. And his bat - which we agree is average - shouldn't force any decisions in the field.

This is what's mind-boggling to me though - we all seem to agree 2B will be filled internally, and it makes sense to Gimenez to get a shot. Why would you have the superior defender play 2B, especially given that if Gimenez doesn't pan out Arias and Rocchio - both also superior defenders - are probably next?

I'm hoping this is GM-speak, because if this team truly has the goal of comtending, you can't do that with Amed at SS. His bat plays, but he's just not good in the field.
 
Moved to the other thread!
 
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Any trade involving Amed ignores one fact. He and Straw at 1 and 2 in the batting order is quite a formidable combination. Maybe more important to the G's offense than the defensive shortcomings Amed may have.
The solution would be in switching positions. The fact is we probably have 2 or 3 players that could be better SS than Amed. But they are not ready right now. Maybe by the All-Star break. But not now.
 
As long as Amed can jump in and play 2B or corner OF, which shouldn't be too hard, I think his versatility is great for filling in shortcomings in our roster. If someone is to lay claim to a position (probably a middle IF) through strong performance then we can feel better taking away that extra level of security but that's way more of a midseason-at-earliest move. To start out the year we need to buy a little time and trading MLB level position players isn't the way to do it (outside of Miller or Chang, or maybe a not-very-good OF).
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Any trade involving Amed ignores one fact. He and Straw at 1 and 2 in the batting order is quite a formidable combination. Maybe more important to the G's offense than the defensive shortcomings Amed may have.
The solution would be in switching positions. The fact is we probably have 2 or 3 players that could be better SS than Amed. But they are not ready right now. Maybe by the All-Star break. But not now.
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I think Amed ends up in the OF though... I don't think they are worried about his batting profile out there if he is producing since that's what they need more than anything else...
 
sportscoach said:
I think Amed ends up in the OF though... I don't think they are worried about his batting profile out there if he is producing since that's what they need more than anything else...
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Of course if 2 of our other MIFs establish themselves and we add an OF and someone like Kwan shows MLB-average kind of stuff then we would no longer have the need for him. That's a lot of things that need to happen/go right though.
 
The thing is this----
We need to hit the ground running starting on opening day.
And regardless of what they do in spring training, I doubt that Arias, Kwan, or Rocchio will be ready for their MLB debut in March and April.

We need to acquire, by trade, a real corner OF. We also could investigate some interesting 2B trade candidates (Cronenworth, Frazier, Lux.) We could use a player at either position that could improve the offense.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
The thing is this----
We need to hit the ground running starting on opening day.
And regardless of what they do in spring training, I doubt that Arias, Kwan, or Rocchio will be ready for their MLB debut in March and April.

We need to acquire, by trade, a real corner OF. We also could investigate some interesting 2B trade candidates (Cronenworth, Frazier, Lux.) We could use a player at either position that could improve the offense.
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I think there's a very good chance Kwan gets the job out of spring training. Being an older player who is already a polished hitter, with a lower ceiling, he is the kind of player that starts seasons with the ball club as opposed to trying to get an extra year of control.

We have enough 2B that I am wholly unconcerned with that position. If it's not Gimenez it's Chang, if it's not Chang I bet Miller or even Palacios could take that spot. For the amount of time that the position would likely be "weak", we have enough slightly below average MLB talent to plug the gap that we don't need to go out acquiring more MIFs.

But yeah, acquiring one corner outfielder should be the priority (along with a lefty reliever and maybe a righty).
 
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