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MLB Lock-Out is Finally Freakin’ Over

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I think they need to scrap the international draft for now, but at a later date try and organize the system better. Most of these guys essentially are working with the teams when they are in middle school. Doing a draft would put players into organizations that they don't personally know over the ones they do. So they would have to set it up to have MLB run academys rather than team run ones...
 
33Y0 said:
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But this is such an easy thing to fix though.

International signees can sign at 16 in the current system. Have draft eligible prospects start at players aged 16 the day of the draft, with an age cap of 19 with a DOB cutoff. Don't like where you get drafted at age 16? Go back to one of the academies or your school, play more amateur circuit games, play winter league games, open the eyes of scouts, enter the draft again at 17. And so on and so on.

This is why, if I am the players, only way I am accepting an international draft is with language in the agreement to keep Latin American MLB team affiliated academies open and properly funded/staffed, keep the DOSL, and allow younger players winter league participation opportunities. Keeping those 3 things allows for continuity on the good side of MLBs presence in Latin America, but how prospects go about getting paid and scouted and their representation in that process is able to be curtailed to where these kids aren't being taken advantage of as much.
 
BimboColesHair said:
But this is such an easy thing to fix though.

International signees can sign at 16 in the current system. Have draft eligible prospects start at players aged 16 the day of the draft, with an age cap of 19 with a DOB cutoff. Don't like where you get drafted at age 16? Go back to one of the academies or your school, play more amateur circuit games, play winter league games, open the eyes of scouts, enter the draft again at 17. And so on and so on.

This is why, if I am the players, only way I am accepting an international draft is with language in the agreement to keep Latin American MLB team affiliated academies open and properly funded/staffed, keep the DOSL, and allow younger players winter league participation opportunities. Keeping those 3 things allows for continuity on the good side of MLBs presence in Latin America, but how prospects go about getting paid and scouted and their representation in that process is able to be curtailed to where these kids aren't being taken advantage of as much.
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How do you think this could help or hurt a team like Guardians? At first, I was thinking it may hurt the team as they invested a lot into their academy and thus had an intangible asset where we may find a few gems (and hide them) and may get a few in a close bidding war where they like what they saw or heard from others.

I also posted a comment similar to Valera yesterday where I thought a draft would hurt a Int player as they leverage a player had to get slot bonus maybe less than a US HS kid who would not give up their college dream other than with say $2 million. Appreciate your insights that there are more potential opportunities even compared to a Rocker in US (without college or JUCO route this year).

I would also assume that there maybe a few games still played behind the scenes if picks are tradable and come a later round it may be like a Rule 5 draft a bit. A team like the Guardians may have their teeth into 2-3 upper-level guys for $xxx,xxxx and the kid made it known to teams through their reps that they will not accept less than that (or will only got to teams where they have trained and know the staff) ... so Guardians could trade a low A level player for that pick and create win-win .... if they can get the players to fit in their overall slot (which they have to do now anyway - but create more via trades). As Guardians tend to low-ball their first round slot, they always tend to find these guys with slightly higher asks later. I think the idea just needs some time to breath so people can see how it could work out well.

Also, for others who haven't seen the connections, there have been a few tweets about
1) Owners have always presented an int draft but gave nothing in exchange, so the union always rejected or countered without it.
2) Owners finally presented we will give you the QO picks for draft ... to make it seem like a win-win (make players look bad if they didn't accept)
3) Owners have been trying to increase the penalties on CBT while players tried to reduce them. Players accepted leave as is approach as middle ground. Yet, owners still want the top level to be even more penalties. Why? Because if they have to reduce the QO penalties, they found a way to make it a win-lose situation elsewhere to offset it.
 
daddywags said:
Nightengale's tweet must have been wrong then. It sure made it seem like they were pretty close on CBT.
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Thought experiment: read Nightengale's timeline as if it were league propaganda.

The whole 'build up hope and blame the players for it falling through' (every day) tactic wouldn't be possible without the help of media members like him.
 
kriegs said:
Thought experiment: read Nightengale's timeline as if it were league propaganda.

The whole 'build up hope and blame the players for it falling through' tactic wouldn't be possible without the help of media members like him.
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I'm assuming it's all 95% slanted one way or the other. Just have to either 1. Ignore it all because we can't affect it anyway, or 2. Try to sift through it as best we can understanding that we'll never know the full, true, picture. The only real mistake, IMO, would be totally viewing one side as "good guys" and the other as "bad guys."
 
daddywags said:
I'm assuming it's all 95% slanted one way or the other. Just have to either 1. Ignore it all because we can't affect it anyway, or 2. Try to sift through it as best we can understanding that we'll never know the full, true, picture. The only real mistake, IMO, would be totally viewing one side as "good guys" and the other as "bad guys."
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100%, the propaganda isn't one-sided here.
 

Great look to be lecturing fans about how they need to be informed, by him, or shut up.

Enjoy the boo birds in Queens when you post another 99 WRC+ with $350 million of Uncle Stevie's Monopoly money.
 
Criznit said:
Keeping/cutting the QO makes no difference to me, but I do have to wonder if this hurts more teams than others. Seems like it does, but is it enough to cause a real hang up. I don't think so, I think no matter what the final deal ends up being the QO is a goner.

Owners have a few more days to get it done before a "full" season becomes impossible.

It would probably be a bad idea to allow any provision that allows MLB to reopen/renegotiate the CBA in a year. Do that and the owners might start stockpiling even more of their own $$$ for an even worse round of this shit a year from now.

Get it done .
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I've always found it absurd that a team signing a FA would be penalized a draft pick. The QO should be an easy fix for both sides if they're being honest.

I don't know what to make of the international draft so I'm trying to take in all the information being posted here. However, it seems to me that most of the international draft community and the programs they are a part of might not agree with the MLBPA. Me, trying to be objective and fair, thinks that MLB should have/control/fund the academies and those players/prospects from them should be part of the MLB draft. I'm thinking that I don't like having separate drafts. I'll leave that open to reconsideration though as I admittedly have little knowledge of the entire process.
 
petes999 said:
How do you think this could help or hurt a team like Guardians? At first, I was thinking it may hurt the team as they invested a lot into their academy and thus had an intangible asset where we may find a few gems (and hide them) and may get a few in a close bidding war where they like what they saw or heard from others.

I also posted a comment similar to Valera yesterday where I thought a draft would hurt a Int player as they leverage a player had to get slot bonus maybe less than a US HS kid who would not give up their college dream other than with say $2 million. Appreciate your insights that there are more potential opportunities even compared to a Rocker in US (without college or JUCO route this year).

I would also assume that there maybe a few games still played behind the scenes if picks are tradable and come a later round it may be like a Rule 5 draft a bit. A team like the Guardians may have their teeth into 2-3 upper-level guys for $xxx,xxxx and the kid made it known to teams through their reps that they will not accept less than that (or will only got to teams where they have trained and know the staff) ... so Guardians could trade a low A level player for that pick and create win-win .... if they can get the players to fit in their overall slot (which they have to do now anyway - but create more via trades). As Guardians tend to low-ball their first round slot, they always tend to find these guys with slightly higher asks later. I think the idea just needs some time to breath so people can see how it could work out well.

Also, for others who haven't seen the connections, there have been a few tweets about
1) Owners have always presented an int draft but gave nothing in exchange, so the union always rejected or countered without it.
2) Owners finally presented we will give you the QO picks for draft ... to make it seem like a win-win (make players look bad if they didn't accept)
3) Owners have been trying to increase the penalties on CBT while players tried to reduce them. Players accepted leave as is approach as middle ground. Yet, owners still want the top level to be even more penalties. Why? Because if they have to reduce the QO penalties, they found a way to make it a win-lose situation elsewhere to offset it.
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Here is a bit of a long read regarding the exploitation of young latinos.. It is presented by NACLA (North American Congress on Latin America) as a 501(c)3 organization that defines and reports on many aspects of Latin America and it's relationship to the rest of the world:

https://nacla.org/article/baseball's-exploitation-latin-talent

The special mention of the Cubs' treatment of Alexi Quiroz is especially damning.. as just having an academy located where the young talent resides doesn't mean these kids are being treated properly or, even appropriately. This exploitation has been ongoing for decades now.. and needs to be addressed by MLB and the PA.. A draft with guidelines, rules and enforcement is essential to correcting the depth of how wrong so many of these kids have been treated..

Thoughts?
 
Andrew Scheid said:

Great look to be lecturing fans about how they need to be informed, by him, or shut up.

Enjoy the boo birds in Queens when you post another 99 WRC+ with $350 million of Uncle Stevie's Monopoly money.
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Frankie wasn't questioned much at all in Cleveland and it shows. Does not know how to handle media/fans that push back on him.
 
Gson said:
Here is a bit of a long read regarding the exploitation of young latinos.. It is presented by NACLA (North American Congress on Latin America) as a 501(c)3 organization that defines and reports on many aspects of Latin America and it's relationship to the rest of the world:

https://nacla.org/article/baseball's-exploitation-latin-talent

The special mention of the Cubs' treatment of Alexi Quiroz is especially damning.. as just having an academy located where the young talent resides doesn't mean these kids are being treated properly or, even appropriately. This exploitation has been ongoing for decades now.. and needs to be addressed by MLB and the PA.. A draft with guidelines, rules and enforcement is essential to correcting the depth of how wrong so many of these kids have been treated..

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

We don't exactly have to have a draft, but we do need to clean up the situation there though at the end of the day.
 
Andrew Scheid said:

Great look to be lecturing fans about how they need to be informed, by him, or shut up.

Enjoy the boo birds in Queens when you post another 99 WRC+ with $350 million of Uncle Stevie's Monopoly money.
Click to expand...

Exhibit A of how owners leverage fan emotions to get public support to screw over players, and the game, in the long run.


"Hey Lindor, you suck! Enjoy your $350 million you earned by being good"

Lindor: Thank you?
 
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