2022 Minor League Thread

Criznit said:

I think we (the org) want Ogonz to get as much exposure as possible at a 3-4 bat everyday in AAA a bit more. Still a little short in the track department, especially as a fringe guy.

Hopefully we all will be calling for his shot in 3-5 weeks, if not oh well.

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I don't need to see him get any more exposure to AAA. He tore up AA last season for less than 200 AB and then performed quite well in just under 300 AB in Columbus. So far in 140 AB this year he's destroying AAA pitching. Yeah, I don't need to see anymore of him in AAA. I need to know if he can translate a good portion of that success to Cleveland because if he can then that's exactly what is needed. Some posters here are coming around to the idea of giving him a look. Not because they are wrong in their assessment of him, but more so because there is no better time than right now to see. I fail to see and haven't seen an explanation describing the harm in doing so right now. The good thing about OGon is that if he doesn't hit the ground running he can be sent down or even removed from the 40 man. There is simply nothing to lose right now and everything to gain.

There's a lot of talk about his lack of defensive ability, and he is certainly not a GG candidate, but he's better in RF than either Reyes or Naylor.

There is no reason to wait 3-5 weeks. In 3-5 weeks they should know if he needs to be sent back down or is going to stick after his initial call up.

Of his 31 HR last season a good portion of them were hit off breaking pitches so I'm not sure where the idea that he can't hit a CB came from. I might look back and get an actual count and post it later.

The organization likes him and all the speculation why he isn't wearing another jersey is exactly that..........speculation.

KluberSociety said:

IMO if we went with Zimmer rather than Mercado and didn't have Amed, we'd have seen OGon by now but with the way the current roster is set up unless you want to sit Kwan against lefties then it's hard to really make a case for OGon on the roster. And thus Palacios gets the callup to serve as Mercado's platoon partner.

I don't think he'll be good, however I don't think he should be given up on and I don't think there's any better thing for his development than seeing big league pitching, which may actually lead him to work on his approach and take that lesson back with him to AAA if he crashes and burns.

He obviously knows how to hit a baseball, and hit it hard. What I'm confused about is why a poor approach has to be looked at more as an inherent property, than as an area for improvement in his development. But maybe the team has tried and tried and he's stubborn and won't change that approach because it's working. Maybe in that case, actually seeing it fail first hand will be what it takes to burst him out.

As I'm not an insider in this whole thing, just theorizing.

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KS, I can't help but wonder if the minor league pitchers weren't pitching around him much. Clearly he has good bat to ball skills which is evident by his BA and low SO rate. Is he of the same mold as Freeman who puts the bat on the ball so well that he keeps his SO and BB rates low? I honestly don't know and I'm not comfortable guessing either way. I need to see what he can or can't do.

OGon will be 24 the entire season so there is still room for his approach to improve if it is an issue. His development over the last 2 seasons suggest he is headed in the right direction anyway. One thing I noticed historically with him is that until last season, his initial exposure to the next level was a bit shaky to start. His initial exposure to AA back in 2019 was rocky, small sample be damned, but he tore up A+ pitching as a 21 yr old. He then started the 21 season in Akron and absolutely destroyed AA pitching which got him promoted to Columbus. While putting up good numbers in Columbus, they weren't on the same level as they were in Akron. I don't know what to make of that if anything at all can be. Now starting this season in Columbus has him crushing the ball again.

At this point we're all just theorizing.

DickyLeftridge said:

People discuss ideas. People have different viewpoints. Except mine. Mine are not allowed. And when my idea and viewpoints are broached, I'm accused for the millionth time of being someone I'm not. Because that's all you can muster.

When will you grow up? When will you head your own advice? I'll wait.

Meanwhile, my posts--both of which were very tongue-in-cheek--seemed to have hit close to home. Why is that? People discuss ideas. People have different viewpoints--except mine. These are your own holier-than-thou lecturing words. Help us follow your logic bub.

Whether you will admit it or not, there are people rooting against Oscar Gonzalez and Will Benson. How do I know that? Because your actions speak louder than your words. Oscar Gonzalez has been the most productive bat in the organization for multiple years now. Please link us to your posts praising his success and urging his promotion to the big league team. I'll wait.

What I can link are the posts--just like the one I'm quoting right now, and just like the one I quoted from ol pete--where people have exactly the same type of visceral, holier-than-thou reaction to Oscar Gonzalez and Will Benson that I described. In the words of the late Denny Green--you are who I thought (and said) you were. Rather than try to deflect from that and get all bent out of shape, maybe you should take a moment to listen to what I've said and either accept it or change. You'll do neither. We all know this.

You can't advocate for Oscar Gonzalez as a player for the Guardians and take yourself seriously as a baseball fan at the same time. These are the uncontroverted facts. Don't think so? Post an example that shows otherwise. Hint: you can't.

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Dude, you aren't reading the posts right then... All people are saying is the fact OGonz has a profile that doesn't usually succeed in the bigs and yet... I think the consensus is get him to the bigs and see what he can do before the trade deadline. We want a little more production in RF...

Benson hasn't produced much in the minors if you look at his numbers, he is a hell of an athlete though so his ceiling is the moon if he can put it together. Some even suggest if he can play at a plus defensively in all three OF spots, for him to eventually replace Mercado...

sportscoach said:

Dude, you aren't reading the posts right then... All people are saying is the fact OGonz has a profile that doesn't usually succeed in the bigs and yet... I think the consensus is get him to the bigs and see what he can do before the trade deadline. We want a little more production in RF...

Benson hasn't produced much in the minors if you look at his numbers, he is a hell of an athlete though so his ceiling is the moon if he can put it together. Some even suggest if he can play at a plus defensively in all three OF spots, for him to eventually replace Mercado...

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Feed troll = more troll.

Should be noted I am not calling you out, this is for anyone responding to the troll.

Obscured By Clouds said:

Feed troll = more troll.

Should be noted I am not calling you out, this is for anyone responding to the troll.

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Just setting the record straight though too... I get your meaning though so no worries...

OGonz is a mid/lower 20's percent K rate that produces while playing below average defense...

Wil Benson is a mid/upper 30's percent K rate that gets on base and doesn't recognize pitches out of a pitchers hand...

Benson has no business being in the ML's at this time.. perhaps ever.. OGonz is pounding on the door for an opportunity to continue what he's done for the last few years..

There are no comparisons between these two guys.. not even close..

Gson said:

OGonz is a mid/lower 20's percent K rate that produces while playing below average defense...

Wil Benson is a mid/upper 30's percent K rate that gets on base and doesn't recognize pitches out of a pitchers hand...

Benson has no business being in the ML's at this time.. perhaps ever.. OGonz is pounding on the door for an opportunity to continue what he's done for the last few years..

There are no comparisons between these two guys.. not even close..

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Nor does Benson and Jones compare either...

sportscoach said:

Nor does Benson and Jones compare either...

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Jones isn't playing yet.. when he does.. he'll be in line to earn promotions, as well..

I disagree that Jones has a profile that usually plays well in MLB.

His K rate has consistently trended up. And, except for a sample size of less than 100 PAs vs LHP last season, he has been absolutely helpless vs lefties.

If he reverses his K trends and backs up last seasons success vs lefties this year, then, yes.

But right now he profiles as Zimmer without the speed and defense...or maybe at best a long side platoon bat.

I understand that a lot of fans think highly of Jones, but lots of fans also thought highly of Zimmer...and Frazier...and Bradley...and Chang. And just like all the excuses handed out for those four...injuries, not getting real opportunities, blocked at their positions, yada...yada...yada....a prospect has to make hay when whatever opportunities present themselves.

MLB pitchers are not gonna hand a batter free passes 15% of the time, unless he shows he can dish out real punishment if they dont...and Jones and his 20-25 HR, almost all against LHP, won't scare them away.

If you look at this org, who do you like more down the road at first base...Naylor, Noel, or Jones? If you look at corner OF, who do you prefer...Kwan, Palacios, Valera, or Jones? We won't even talk about third base.

CATS44 said:

I disagree that Jones has a profile that usually plays well in MLB.

His K rate has consistently trended up. And, except for a sample size of less than 100 PAs vs LHP last season, he has been absolutely helpless vs lefties.

If he reverses his K trends and backs up last seasons success vs lefties this year, then, yes.

But right now he profiles as Zimmer without the speed and defense...or maybe at best a long side platoon bat.

I understand that a lot of fans think highly of Jones, but lots of fans also thought highly of Zimmer...and Frazier...and Bradley...and Chang. And just like all the excuses handed out for those four...injuries, not getting real opportunities, blocked at their positions, yada...yada...yada....a prospect has to make hay when whatever opportunities present themselves.

MLB pitchers are not gonna hand a batter free passes 15% of the time, unless he shows he can dish out real punishment if they dont...and Jones and his 20-25 HR, almost all against LHP, won't scare them away.

If you look at this org, who do you like more down the road at first base...Naylor, Noel, or Jones? If you look at corner OF, who do you prefer...Kwan, Palacios, Valera, or Jones? We won't even talk about third base.

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I don't think anyone has actually said that. It's more about him having a profile that plays better to make it than other prospects.

CATS44 said:

I disagree that Jones has a profile that usually plays well in MLB.

His K rate has consistently trended up. And, except for a sample size of less than 100 PAs vs LHP last season, he has been absolutely helpless vs lefties.

If he reverses his K trends and backs up last seasons success vs lefties this year, then, yes.

But right now he profiles as Zimmer without the speed and defense...or maybe at best a long side platoon bat.

I understand that a lot of fans think highly of Jones, but lots of fans also thought highly of Zimmer...and Frazier...and Bradley...and Chang. And just like all the excuses handed out for those four...injuries, not getting real opportunities, blocked at their positions, yada...yada...yada....a prospect has to make hay when whatever opportunities present themselves.

MLB pitchers are not gonna hand a batter free passes 15% of the time, unless he shows he can dish out real punishment if they dont...and Jones and his 20-25 HR, almost all against LHP, won't scare them away.

If you look at this org, who do you like more down the road at first base...Naylor, Noel, or Jones? If you look at corner OF, who do you prefer...Kwan, Palacios, Valera, or Jones? We won't even talk about third base.

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Jones has similar batting numbers as Carlos Pena did... he is the only person I have found close to Jones. Also batters can get 15% BB rate...

Gson said:

OGonz is a mid/lower 20's percent K rate that produces while playing below average defense...

Wil Benson is a mid/upper 30's percent K rate that gets on base and doesn't recognize pitches out of a pitchers hand...

Benson has no business being in the ML's at this time.. perhaps ever.. OGonz is pounding on the door for an opportunity to continue what he's done for the last few years..

There are no comparisons between these two guys.. not even close..

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Benson does happen to be producing this year though (so far his K's are down but perhaps both he and OGonz are playing weaker pitchers this year).

It is interesting to look at both of them as almost mirror images of each other - Benson has wRC+ of 124 so far and OGonz of 141 but you wouldn't think they'd be so close and that's because Benson is walking 16.1% of the time.

I agree with your assessment of Benson being seemingly slow to react to pitches. This seems like a problem that could exacerbate when he faces guys throwing 95+ consistently. However, OGonz is similar in that the bigs will be way different than AAA. Minor league pitchers are generally working on their development, rather than trying to win ball games, so I don't think they are focused that much on scouting their opposition.

Jones well... I just see him as someone the organization is likely to trade. He probably isn't going to play a very good OF, and our 1B situation doesn't seem terrible at the moment. The JRam extension really might just be what pushes him out of town. He probably has the most value at 3B and we just don't have a spot for him there.

Not sure if anyone's done this yet... but an early look at how our top prospects are doing:

1. George Valera (Akron): .220 (100 AB), 4 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, 9 RBI, 23 BB, 33 K, .371 OBP, .340 SLG, .711 OPS
2. Daniel Espino (Lake County - DL): 1-0 (4 GS), 2.45 ERA, 18.1 IP, 9 H (4 HR), 4 BB, 35 K, .184 BAA, 1.06 WHIP
3. Gabriel Arias (Columbus - DL): .197 (71 AB), 4 2B, 3 HR, 11 RBI, 5 BB, 25 K, 3 SB, .269 OBP, .380 SLG, .649 OPS
4. Brayan Rocchio (Akron - DL): .236 (89 AB), 3 2B, 1 3B, 3 HR, 13 RBI, 11 BB, 20 K, 2 SB, .324 OBP, .393 SLG, .717 OPS
5. Tyler Freeman (Columbus): .241 (54 AB), 4 2B, 1 HR, 9 RBI, 1 BB, 5 K, 1 SB, .349 OBP, .370 SLG, .719 OPS
6. Nolan Jones (Columbus - DL): No stats yet
7. Gavin Williams (Lake County): 2-1 (6 GS), 1.48 ERA, 30.1 IP, 13 H (0 HR), 10 BB, 45 K, .130 BAA, 0.76 WHIP
8. Logan Allen (Akron): 2-2 (7 GS), 3.38 ERA, 37.1 IP, 33 H (4 HR), 12 BB, 53 K, .234 BAA, 1.21 WHIP
9. Jose Tena (Akron): .246 (130 AB), 4 2B, 2 3B, 2 HR, 12 RBI, 7 BB, 33 K, 4 SB, .281 OBP, .354 SLG, .635 OPS
10. Angel Martinez (Lake County): .288 (80 AB), 5 2B, 2 3B, 1 HR, 7 RBI, 12 BB, 19 K, 5 SB, .387 OBP, .438 SLG, .825 OPS
11. Tanner Burns (Akron): 1-1 (5 GS), 1.69 ERA, 21.1 IP, 14 H (1 HR), 11 BB, 27 K, .187 BAA, 1.17 WHIP
12. Bryan Lavastida (Columbus): .218 (55 AB), 2 2B, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 6 BB, 10 K, .317 OBP, .309 SLG, .626 OPS
13. Jhonkensy Noel (Lake County): .240 (96 AB), 6 2B, 9 HR, 20 RBI, 10 BB, 35 K, 1 SB, .327 OBP, .583 SLG, .910 OPS
14. Petey Halpin (Lake County): .168 (95 AB), 1 3B, 1 HR, 5 RBI, 11 BB, 26 K, 7 SB, .262 OBP, .221 SLG, .483 OPS
15. Steven Kwan (Cleveland): .281 (96 AB), 6 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 13 RBI, 14 BB, 10 K, 1 SB, .377 OBP, .396 SLG, .773 OPS
16. Bo Naylor (Akron): .240 (75 AB), 3 2B, 2 3B, 1 HR, 10 RBI, 20 BB, 21 K, 7 SB, .406 OBP, .373 SLG, .779 OPS
17. Cody Morris (Columbus - DL): No stats yet
18. Richie Palacios (Cleveland): .300 (30 AB), 1 2B, 2 RBI, 2 BB, 5 K, 1 SB, .344 OBP, .333 SLG, .677 OPS
19. Carson Tucker (Lynchburg - DL): .083 (24 AB), 2 RBI, 9 BB, 9 K, 2 SB, .353 OBP, .083 SLG, .436 OPS
20. Peyton Battenfield (Columbus): 2-2 (7 GS), 2.54 ERA, 39.0 IP, 31 H (2 HR), 13 BB, 27 K, .214 BAA, 1.13 WHIP

First legit full off day since the season began, so if you have questions shoot em.

BimboColesHair said:

First legit full off day since the season began, so if you have questions shoot em.

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Biggest positive surprise and biggest disappointment so far from under 25 players on the major league team and/or in the minors from an organizational standpoint.

I know it’s still such a small sample size and no one in the org is treating ST and the first 6 weeks as the gospel but surely there are some positive and negative surprises from the developmental team and higher ups perspective?