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2022 Summer League Thread

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Random thoughts:

1).
I'm in the minority, but I'm keeping Windler all day over Cedi.

Windler has always displayed active hands, good rebounding, and a theoretical shooting prowess that can be theoretically elite. That's the kind of guy I'm patient with (like the Heat are with their guys); Windler seems to be struggling for confidence; that can be a challenge to correct without playing through it, but Dylan wont ever likely be a player good enough that gets to play through tough stretches. He, along with Okoro & Stevens should be in Vegas in my opinion, working on things in game action, and building confidence in their new/old skills. That said, with Walton's experience at Golden State, and their continued ability to turn unsung players into contributors, I'd prefer to give Dylan one more year as opposed to keeping Cedi...

Cedi is a B- player without one skill that can be elite. We've seen enough. He's not terrible, but, when you are looking for 9-12th men in your rotation, you sort of want to dial in on specialists or high upside players. Cedi isn't these things. If we need a roster spot, or the ability to stay out of the tax, Cedi is my top choice.

2).
I also spent some time learning about G-League salary cap/pay, in regards to Mobley. I was sort of wondering if the Cavs could give Isaiah a juicy contract on the Charge to free up our 2-way; unfortunately that loop hole is closed. Basically as a designated player or 2-way guy you make $125k for the season, and, as a 2 way player, you get paid the minimum on a per game basis for the times you are with the Big Club. So, moving Isaiah off the 2-way this season is about a $500k haircut...no way we can make that move this year, without giving Isaiah a chance to develop his game and body. I'm thinking we move off Nembhard due to roster construction though...

3).
I'm still wondering if there was a cultural red flag on Eason that cant be quantified. 2 High schools (and different schools soph-junior-senior years), committed to Cincy, and then transferred to LSU (due a coaching change, but going to LSU to not start seems unusual; Cincy & LSU not exactly known for the choir boys either). That's a lot of movement over the last 5 years for someone this talented. I also did the search for the puff piece where the prospects credit or talk about thier past/family/formative experiences, and found basically nothing. Social media is basically non-existent. That could be because Tari is a gym rat, or simply boring. But his profile falling to 17, and then Houston, who notoriously are big cultural risk takers, drafting him, makes me feel like there is something we do not know...

There are creative ways to keep everyone. You can use Nembhard's 2 way on Stevens or Wade after cutting them. Trade Neto once Rubio comes back for cash or a pick that won't ever yield. Sign Stevens or Wade back to a guaranteed contract.
 
There are creative ways to keep everyone. You can use Nembhard's 2 way on Stevens or Wade after cutting them. Trade Neto once Rubio comes back for cash or a pick that won't ever yield. Sign Stevens or Wade back to a guaranteed contract.
with Rubio's knee injury history, I am not trading Neto even when ricky comes back
 
Random thoughts:

1).
I'm in the minority, but I'm keeping Windler all day over Cedi.

Windler has always displayed active hands, good rebounding, and a theoretical shooting prowess that can be theoretically elite. That's the kind of guy I'm patient with (like the Heat are with their guys); Windler seems to be struggling for confidence; that can be a challenge to correct without playing through it, but Dylan wont ever likely be a player good enough that gets to play through tough stretches. He, along with Okoro & Stevens should be in Vegas in my opinion, working on things in game action, and building confidence in their new/old skills. That said, with Walton's experience at Golden State, and their continued ability to turn unsung players into contributors, I'd prefer to give Dylan one more year as opposed to keeping Cedi...

Cedi is a B- player without one skill that can be elite. We've seen enough. He's not terrible, but, when you are looking for 9-12th men in your rotation, you sort of want to dial in on specialists or high upside players. Cedi isn't these things. If we need a roster spot, or the ability to stay out of the tax, Cedi is my top choice.

2).
I also spent some time learning about G-League salary cap/pay, in regards to Mobley. I was sort of wondering if the Cavs could give Isaiah a juicy contract on the Charge to free up our 2-way; unfortunately that loop hole is closed. Basically as a designated player or 2-way guy you make $125k for the season, and, as a 2 way player, you get paid the minimum on a per game basis for the times you are with the Big Club. So, moving Isaiah off the 2-way this season is about a $500k haircut...no way we can make that move this year, without giving Isaiah a chance to develop his game and body. I'm thinking we move off Nembhard due to roster construction though...

3).
I'm still wondering if there was a cultural red flag on Eason that cant be quantified. 2 High schools (and different schools soph-junior-senior years), committed to Cincy, and then transferred to LSU (due a coaching change, but going to LSU to not start seems unusual; Cincy & LSU not exactly known for the choir boys either). That's a lot of movement over the last 5 years for someone this talented. I also did the search for the puff piece where the prospects credit or talk about thier past/family/formative experiences, and found basically nothing. Social media is basically non-existent. That could be because Tari is a gym rat, or simply boring. But his profile falling to 17, and then Houston, who notoriously are big cultural risk takers, drafting him, makes me feel like there is something we do not know...
cedi is cedi, we all know what he is. I would keep windler over cedi too. and hope for lighting in a bottle with him
 
Referencing Sunmer League to support Windler is not the basis of a string argument. Anthony Randolph anyone?

You’ve been quoting me and trying to bait me into a mud fight since around the trade deadline and you finally pushed my button with this Anthony Randolph slander

Watch your back Miro…

All season long. :coffee:
 
That’s what summer league is for!

To be fair I’ve been on the “ lower middle class but not totally broke man’s Klay Thimpson” train for a long time.

You know you loved that rainbow 3 coming off a quick dribble handoff early in the clock, he takes two dribbles to the right away, kind of fakes like he’s going to reset the play for a half second and then just pulls up with pure confidence in the shot…Idk if I’ve ever seen Danny Green do that. I hate the Danny Green comparison. He’s a much more dynamic shooter that can take and make tough shots in multiple different situations…so I gotta go with the “pray he’s Klay” option personally

I think the Green comparison is pretty good. I hope and think he's gonna be an even better shooter, who can get his shot off in spots Danny can't.

But athletically and the way he moves very much remind me of Green.
 
I think Windler looked good even at times last year, despite the shot going down. The problem is that he missed his opportunity for developmental minutes and there basically aren't any anymore. Okoro is going to have the same issue this year if he can't add to offense. We thought we had 4-5 years for Okoro to figure it out, but Darius, Mobley, and Allen moved that timetable up with how well they played.

Sexton will even be in that same boat if he can't play with the other guys and only plays at the same time as them.

Windler's injury came at the worst possible time for him. He could have easily started at SF when he was drafted and pushed Cedi to the bench, but that is such a remote possibility no matter what happens at this point. 3-4 guys would have to go down in the rotation ahead of him for him to get more than 10 min in a game. Some of that is the coach, but some of it is he is 25 and doesn't have any NBA min under his belt.

We've also seen lower body injuries wreak havoc on shooters before. Boobie had Turf toe and it killed his shooting for most of a season. Guy has a rod of metal in his leg. I'd love love to see the dude we drafted, but to me he has played scared since he was taken out of the air and broke his wrist.
I think this hits the point exactly. He missed a ton of development time due to injuries and you can tell the NBA game is still way too fast for him, but we don't have the minutes to give him to help that development.

I also want to push back a bit on what @RchfldCavRaised is saying, and that earning minutes has to be a two-way street. JBB tried at different times last year to give Windler a rotation spot, and Windler flat out wasn't ready for it. He almost singlehandedly lost us a game against Detroit (I think we were up 10-15 in the 3rd and he had a disaster of a 2 min run and singlehandedly gave it back up). When he tried late in the year to bench Cedi for Windler, Windler just couldn't hit a shot to save his life. JBB has no right to play Windler minutes to develop him if those minutes are coming to the detriment of everyone else around him.

And it's no one's fault really. A ton of people bust due to injuries, and this also demonstrates why it's a bad idea to try to develop too many young players at once. He unfortunately just missed his golden window because he was hurt, and now he's got these mental blocks from so much time away from the court and we need to be prioritizing putting the best team around Mobley and Garland.
 
Yea that player is dead and gone and I do lay much of the blame at the feet of JBB.

On the rare days that he has heathy last season when the Cavs were making a playoff push, Coach should have benched the existing rotation who earned their minutes in practice to put Windler in the lineup because they needed his passive play and lack of aggression?

And Windlers's tentativeness in both Cleveland and in Canton is due to coaching, and has nothing to do with:

9/27/19 Stress Fracture -misses season​
12/23/20 Broken Wrists- misses 15 games​
2/15/21 Knee Injury​
3/31/21 Knee Surgery for patella tendinopathy​
10/19/21 Right Hip Injury​
12/4/21 Back Injury​
12/6/21 Calf Injury​
1/3/22 Knee Injury​

If I had that many injuries over three years, I'd be afraid of riding a bike.

But sure. I'll stop arguing. It's got to be coaching.
 
Legit point of view. I get it. Carrying 3 pgs makes a lot of sense especially on this team

Most NBA teams carry three point guards. They are incredibly important to get through a long season. Heck, just remembering back to the three nightmarish Pangos starts should shock everyone here into agreement.

As third point guards go, Neto is fully capable. While plenty of teams carry a Nembhard level third point, the Cavs will have a seven year veteran who has started almost 100 NBA career games.

I do wonder why the Cavs need so many pure shooting guards who don't really have the length to help against most small forwards. That's going to play out one way or another before the season starts.
 
Most NBA teams carry three point guards. They are incredibly important to get through a long season. Heck, just remembering back to the three nightmarish Pangos starts should shock everyone here into agreement.

Last September, I was thinking: "how are they going to find minutes for Rubio, Garland, and Sexton?"

Little did I know that 6 months later, they'd be pulling guys in off the street to play PG some nights because all three were out.

Maybe we should carry 5 in training camp this year just so we got another guy who knows the playbook, even if he's in Canton most nights.
 
On the rare days that he has heathy last season when the Cavs were making a playoff push, Coach should have benched the existing rotation who earned their minutes in practice to put Windler in the lineup because they needed his passive play and lack of aggression?

And Windlers's tentativeness in both Cleveland and in Canton is due to coaching, and has nothing to do with:

9/27/19 Stress Fracture -misses season​
12/23/20 Broken Wrists- misses 15 games​
2/15/21 Knee Injury​
3/31/21 Knee Surgery for patella tendinopathy​
10/19/21 Right Hip Injury​
12/4/21 Back Injury​
12/6/21 Calf Injury​
1/3/22 Knee Injury​

If I had that many injuries over three years, I'd be afraid of riding a bike.

But sure. I'll stop arguing. It's got to be coaching.

Ok it's not coaching at all and JBB got every ounce of ability he could out of Windler.

Happy?
 
If one didn’t know the stakes were high for the next step in this rebuild, just browse RCF during what’s supposed to be our off-season

Passion, intellectual jousting, barbs… I saw Ben and Boobs bristle at each other recently and I loved it. I’ve just got to say:

There’s not a better forum for NBA or Cavs talk, and I’ve been on quite a few and browse quite a few other teams forums weekly.

This is the Roman Coliseum of forums and I love being a gladiator with you guys all year round.

Ok, back to jousting
 
Last September, I was thinking: "how are they going to find minutes for Rubio, Garland, and Sexton?"

Little did I know that 6 months later, they'd be pulling guys in off the street to play PG some nights because all three were out.

Maybe we should carry 5 in training camp this year just so we got another guy who knows the playbook, even if he's in Canton most nights.

I do remember a bunch of posts last season wondering if there are enough minutes to go around. At that time, I was looking at players like Denzel Valentine and thinking the roster doesn't have enough depth to withstand injuries.

Now you can definitely see purpose at the end of the bench. Robin Lopez steps in to the Moses Brown/Ed Davis role. His presence essentially eliminates Evan Mobley being forced into playing center if/when injuries hit Jarrett Allen. Coaches can keep Mobley at power forward unless they really want to exploit something in the opponent. Mobley is just too impactful as a disruptor at forward to be forced into being the center. Neto and Ricky overlap to guarantee Sexton won't be forced into a point guard role.

There's never enough minutes in July, but never enough depth in December.
 
Dameyon Dotson is my favorite point guard on the Cavs from the last 20 years. Eric Snow is a close second.

Honestly... He did an admirable job playing out of his comfort zone in that role. Dropping dimes. Also... Saw Snow's name get tossed around lately... I loved his play and strategy when he threw the ball into the stratosphere off a rebound (off a free throw?) to run out of the clock. I think it was a playoff game, but can't remember who it was against. There was a celebration at midcourt soon after
 
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