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22 GM Thread!!!

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
sportscoach said:
So when it comes to trades

In my mind, guys who I can trade without any Qualms are...

Arias, Freeman, Tena, Palacios, Curry, Halpin, Tucker, Mace, Gaddis, Tolentino, Greene, Fermin, Gabby Rodriguez, anyone else outside of the top 30 (outside of Benson).

Then anyone else but Espino, Valera, Williams and Naylor can be had for the right price.

Can we find an upgrade over Reyes, with using a combo of four guys from the first list? Can we find a lefty setup man with years of control?

@Gson what do you think?
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There are some guys (mentioned by you: Espino, Williams, Valera, Naylor & could be others or WILL be others) that there are no reasonable or price that would convince CleFO to sell.. They represent the future core of the team and cannot be dealt for damn near any reason.. Even the mere mention of them being available for the "right price" is disingenuous.. No one in their right mind would make a "right price" offer.. except maybe Jerry DiPoto..

W/R to the overall comment.. agree with this posting as a general / overview of the coming trade deadline in just over two weeks..
 
CATS44 said:
The idea that 'upside' is ranked by power is tenuous at best.

Among our possible outfielders, who has the most upside? It may be Kwan. Hand-eye coordination is the best precursor of offensive production...and Kwan's is off the charts.

Kwan so far strikes out less and walks more than Brantley...and has a higher ISO than Brantley did early. Thats pretty high upside.

But there's an even more interesting comparison. Kwan so far strikes out less and walks more than Rod Carew...and has nearly as much ISO.

And plays better defense by far than either.

You dont have to hit home runs or put dents in the outfield walls to have upside.
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Who in the hell used power to rank upside and why do you keep posting these fallacies? Upside is the potential for a player's physical and mental tools to manifest. Kwan offers the ability to put the bat on the ball at an extremely high level. If not for that he has little value.

If hand-eye coordination is the best precursor to offensive production then you'd be all over Arias' jock. Kwan's isn't off the chart. The only thing off the chart in Kwan's arsenal is his mental approach/discipline/recognition. That's his bread and butter and it isn't going to get much better than it already is. He's polished in that regard and quite gifted honestly. Kwan isn't on the list of outfielders with upside and here we go with the Brantley comparisons again.

How much a player strikes out isn't nearly as important as how a player impacts the baseball when he makes contact and the frequency on which that happens. What's worse a SO, a soft ground ball or a shallow can of corn?
 
CDAV45 said:
Who in the hell used power to rank upside and why do you keep posting these fallacies? Upside is the potential for a player's physical and mental tools to manifest. Kwan offers the ability to put the bat on the ball at an extremely high level. If not for that he has little value.

If hand-eye coordination is the best precursor to offensive production then you'd be all over Arias' jock. Kwan's isn't off the chart. The only thing off the chart in Kwan's arsenal is his mental approach/discipline/recognition. That's his bread and butter and it isn't going to get much better than it already is. He's polished in that regard and quite gifted honestly. Kwan isn't on the list of outfielders with upside and here we go with the Brantley comparisons again.

How much a player strikes out isn't nearly as important as how a player impacts the baseball when he makes contact and the frequency on which that happens. What's worse a SO, a soft ground ball or a shallow can of corn?
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@CDAV45

You might believe that during the next year or three.. little Stevie Kwan might be able to add flexibility and muscle mass thereby improving his ISO... This is not only possible, but likely.. The effect may not result in a massive spike in power output.. but can (and will) result in more XBH's and fewer soft contact outs..

At least.. that's the theory..
 
sportscoach said:
Kwan won't get a whole lot better than he is now... Experience and whatnot will add to his skills, but he isnt going to add much more power or anything like that. Kwan is still perfectly fine for a lot of teams the way he currently is...he doesn't have the overall "upside" as other prospects because his game is limited to a special skillset. He is not a great athlete overall, and he doesn't have any room to add muscle.



Amed isn't a long term piece and neither is Reyes (who gets rid of some roster flexibility in my mind).

We have to figure out how to move Rosario and Reyes, while adding talent with trades/prospect promotions that can keep production similar.

This team will get a reshuffle here soon... likely buying and selling..
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Kwan could be perfectly fine for this team. Having Kwan in LF and Straw in CF isn't perfect for any team IMO.

Rosario is good as gone. It's just a matter of how soon. Anyone in denial of that needs their head examined.

I don't like Reyes' inability to play defense either, but we can't deny what he can do offensively when he's right. He's exactly what this team needs in that sense and it sure would be nice to see him get back to being that hitter.

I agree with CATS in the idea that this lineup is becoming too LH heavy. He's absolutely, 100% correct about that IMO. What gives and who goes is the question?
 
Gson said:
@CDAV45

You might believe that during the next year or three.. little Stevie Kwan might be able to add flexibility and muscle mass thereby improving his ISO... This is not only possible, but likely.. The effect may not result in a massive spike in power output.. but can (and will) result in more XBH's and fewer soft contact outs..

At least.. that's the theory..
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Yeah, while not impossible I think there's less than 5% of that happening. It certainly isn't "likely".

Also, I don't think he needs a massive power spike. In fact, I like him perfectly fine as he is. I don't like him and Straw in the same lineup. I don't know who I prefer between Kwan, Brennan, Straw or Benson. Who is preferred can't be determined at this time IMO.

While I'm finding it difficult to keep this conversation on track let me just say this isn't merely about Kwan or any deficiencies he may or may not have. He's a fantastic leadoff hitter and he should have been in that spot sooner IMO.
 
CDAV45 said:
Yeah, while not impossible I think there's less than 5% of that happening. It certainly isn't "likely".

Also, I don't think he needs a massive power spike. In fact, I like him perfectly fine as he is. I don't like him and Straw in the same lineup. I don't know who I prefer between Kwan, Brennan, Straw or Benson. Who is preferred can't be determined at this time IMO.

While I'm finding it difficult to keep this conversation on track let me just say this isn't merely about Kwan or any deficiencies he may or may not have. He's a fantastic leadoff hitter and he should have been in that spot sooner IMO.
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in baseball.. if you're not improving..you're dying (read: going back to the minors)

oh.. and your percentages are crapola..
 
Gson said:
in baseball.. if you're not improving..you're dying (read: going back to the minors)

oh.. and your percentages are crapola..
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For most that's probably true, but I don't think so for Kwan. All he needs to do is maintain his superior approach. In time he may be able or gain confidence to be more aggressive on inside pitches, but he's not going to drive the ball more without sacrificing his approach. I'd rather he didn't do that or try to be something he's not. Again, the problem here isn't Kwan.
 
CDAV45 said:
Who in the hell used power to rank upside and why do you keep posting these fallacies? Upside is the potential for a player's physical and mental tools to manifest. Kwan offers the ability to put the bat on the ball at an extremely high level. If not for that he has little value.

If hand-eye coordination is the best precursor to offensive production then you'd be all over Arias' jock. Kwan's isn't off the chart. The only thing off the chart in Kwan's arsenal is his mental approach/discipline/recognition. That's his bread and butter and it isn't going to get much better than it already is. He's polished in that regard and quite gifted honestly. Kwan isn't on the list of outfielders with upside and here we go with the Brantley comparisons again.

How much a player strikes out isn't nearly as important as how a player impacts the baseball when he makes contact and the frequency on which that happens. What's worse a SO, a soft ground ball or a shallow can of corn?
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I disagree about Kwan not being off the charts in hand eye coordination, in fact I think that's his top skill. When he swings he rarely misses the ball. His approach isn't totally optimal with how passive he starts at bats.
 
KluberSociety said:
I disagree about Kwan not being off the charts in hand eye coordination, in fact I think that's his top skill. When he swings he rarely misses the ball. His approach isn't totally optimal with how passive he starts at bats.
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That's because he only swings at his pitches typically. His approach is totally optimal and there isn't a more patient hitter in baseball. He's not an exceptional athlete and his hand-eye coordination while good is not off the charts. Sometimes he even appears awkward, but he's never out of place or appears surprised. He's got a great baseball mind IMO.
 
CDAV45 said:
That's because he only swings at his pitches typically. His approach is totally optimal and there isn't a more patient hitter in baseball. He's not an exceptional athlete and his hand-eye coordination while good is not off the charts. Sometimes he even appears awkward, but he's never out of place or appears surprised. He's got a great baseball mind IMO.
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Patient is not necessarily ideal. Balancing patience and aggression is. He doesn't do enough of the latter. The main reason he gets away with his extreme passivity is that his hand eye coordination lets him hit with 2 strikes without much fear of striking out.
 
KluberSociety said:
Patient is not necessarily ideal. Balancing patience and aggression is. He doesn't do enough of the latter. The main reason he gets away with his extreme passivity is that his hand eye coordination lets him hit with 2 strikes without much fear of striking out.
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I think he hits with 2 strikes because pitchers aren't afraid to pitch to him. I know I wouldn't be unless the winning run is on 3B with less than 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th.
 
CDAV45 said:
I think he hits with 2 strikes because pitchers aren't afraid to pitch to him. I know I wouldn't be unless the winning run is on 3B with less than 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th.
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He wouldn't be hitting with 2 strikes if he were putting strike 1 and 2 in play.
 
KluberSociety said:
Patient is not necessarily ideal. Balancing patience and aggression is. He doesn't do enough of the latter. The main reason he gets away with his extreme passivity is that his hand eye coordination lets him hit with 2 strikes without much fear of striking out.
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His tendency is the let the first strike go by.. that kind of passivity has led to him "only" hitting in the 290's for his short career.. There is plenty of space available for him to be vastly more aggressive, especially with the first pitch.. that typically, is the best pitch for a hitter to crush.. We'll see if he can break that tendency and or if it matters..

..but, although it's reasonable in polite company not to have to say this: what we have seen so far is pretty darn good..
 
Gson said:
His tendency is the let the first strike go by.. that kind of passivity has led to him "only" hitting in the 290's for his short career.. There is plenty of space available for him to be vastly more aggressive, especially with the first pitch.. that typically, is the best pitch for a hitter to crush.. We'll see if he can break that tendency and or if it matters..

..but, although it's reasonable in polite company not to have to say this: what we have seen so far is pretty darn good..
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Agreed. I don't think he has to but he can at least reverse his scouting report a bit and draw a few extra walks and maybe pull a few over the fence. I think that's his path from being a league average hitter to a very good hitter, as well as maybe leaning back into what got him extra pop in 2021 if that's possible. If not maybe hitting the weights a bit more.
 
I find it odd that while praising Kwan's performance thus far we are now criticizing his approach. A good portion of his value comes from being patient and carrying a very good OBP. Personally, and I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not, I don't think he's going to do anymore damage with the first strike compared to the third strike. He's just not that type of hitter. Now somebody like OGon should swing at every first strike he sees so he doesn't look stoopid chasing a slider 3ft off the plate for the third strike. In order to do that he has to recognize hittable pitches early in the count and I'm not sure that's he's capable. If you want to talk about hand-eye coordination then he's your guy. Can't recognize pitches for shit and swings at just about everything while rarely walking yet somehow manages to carry good BA's.
 
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