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2022 American League Central Division Champions

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cliffdawg said:
The signing of right-hander Luis Castillo to a five-year, $108 million contract,

Could we get Bieber for that prices range or is that wishful thinking ?
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Wishful thinking. Rosenhaus is not gonna let Shane go all Jose.
 
thestatman said:
Wishful thinking. Rosenhaus is not gonna let Shane go all Jose.
Click to expand...
1 Jose’s agent didn’t want to let Jose go all Jose either
2 which means “there’s a chance”
3 but Shane is not Jose.
4 and that isn’t an insult to Shane.
 
That Castillo extension (5 yrs $108m) was right in line with what Kevin Gausman (5 yrs $110m) and Robbie Ray (5 yrs $115m) received last year in free agency and a similar AAV to Marcus Stroman (3 yrs $71m)

With 2 years left, a 5 yr ~$100m extension seems like a fair and reasonable offer. Question is if Bieber is intent on hitting free agency and if the Guardians are willing to ante up that kind of money again after the Jose extension.
 
thestatman said:
Wishful thinking. Rosenhaus is not gonna let Shane go all Jose.
Click to expand...

This ain't football. It's also his brother and Dennis Wyrick who are handling Shane. Not Drew.

Shane has no leverage. Unlike NFL players, holdouts don't work as a form of leverage to get your contract demands met in baseball.

Rosenhaus Sports is also trying to make in-roads in the world of baseball, as they only entered baseball agency 4 years ago. They only represent 2 players currently. They aren't going to take the same approach the football side of things takes, they are trying to build a brand in the baseball world. And yes, I understand as a sports agency you grow your business by taking care of your clients, the players, but you also can't burn bridges with front offices in your infancy.

It all depends on if Shane/RSR are hellbent on making it to free agency, which wouldn't match their actual actions with regards to their relationship with Cleveland or any message sent from either party.

Lindor and Bauer made it clear years before they were set to be free agents that they were going to hit the open market and wouldn't even entertain an extension. Obviously Lindor never did, but he also got paid everything him and his group wanted and then some by making the Mets bend over and take it.

That hasn't happened with Shane.

It's not wishful thinking. It's reality. There is absolutely a chance they can get something done.
 
BimboColesHair said:
This ain't football. It's also his brother and Dennis Wyrick who are handling Shane. Not Drew.

Shane has no leverage. Unlike NFL players, holdouts don't work as a form of leverage to get your contract demands met in baseball.

Rosenhaus Sports is also trying to make in-roads in the world of baseball, as they only entered baseball agency 4 years ago. They only represent 2 players currently. They aren't going to take the same approach the football side of things takes, they are trying to build a brand in the baseball world. And yes, I understand as a sports agency you grow your business by taking care of your clients, the players, but you also can't burn bridges with front offices in your infancy.

It all depends on if Shane/RSR are hellbent on making it to free agency, which wouldn't match their actual actions with regards to their relationship with Cleveland or any message sent from either party.

Lindor and Bauer made it clear years before they were set to be free agents that they were going to hit the open market and wouldn't even entertain an extension. Obviously Lindor never did, but he also got paid everything him and his group wanted and then some by making the Mets bend over and take it.

That hasn't happened with Shane.

It's not wishful thinking. It's reality. There is absolutely a chance they can get something done.
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The changes to the salary structure and payment to players who chose year over year arbitration has taken the financial argument to what I'll refer as a neutral spot.. That is.. the last drop of blood from the turnip isn't worth holding out and/or negotiating for by a pre-free agent by his representation.. There is some context to that.. but not for this response..

What is significantly "more" valuable to the pre-free agent guys and has been since the advent of contract length has created 40 year old players is the versatility [e.g. Ten year deals with nine opt outs, escalators.. add-ons/perks.. etc.. etc.. ] Being able to alter a contract/change location/other are vastly more interesting to the players who would otherwise feel "trapped"... This is especially true for the top quartile of performers. Let's be honest.. "loyalty" isn't being bought.. and it certainly isn't being sold.. (perhaps rented?)

Shane is in that highest quartile..

In the future, the fullest value of any extension for Bieber may not show up in his bank account week to week.... it may be found in future payments / post playing career eventualities.. of future opportunities to renegotiate the existing contract.. or opt outs.. etc... etc.. The saying goes.. what can you buy with $ 32 MM that you can't buy with $ 30 MM: A: nothing.. So.. look at non-monetary remuneration and or the ability to self direct a players career, geographically, as part of the value in the extension..

at least that's imho... your thoughts?
 
Gson said:
The changes to the salary structure and payment to players who chose year over year arbitration has taken the financial argument to what I'll refer as a neutral spot.. That is.. the last drop of blood from the turnip isn't worth holding out and/or negotiating for by a pre-free agent by his representation.. There is some context to that.. but not for this response..

What is significantly "more" valuable to the pre-free agent guys and has been since the advent of contract length has created 40 year old players is the versatility [e.g. Ten year deals with nine opt outs, escalators.. add-ons/perks.. etc.. etc.. ] Being able to alter a contract/change location/other are vastly more interesting to the players who would otherwise feel "trapped"... This is especially true for the top quartile of performers. Let's be honest.. "loyalty" isn't being bought.. and it certainly isn't being sold.. (perhaps rented?)

Shane is in that highest quartile..

In the future, the fullest value of any extension for Bieber may not show up in his bank account week to week.... it may be found in future payments / post playing career eventualities.. of future opportunities to renegotiate the existing contract.. or opt outs.. etc... etc.. The saying goes.. what can you buy with $ 32 MM that you can't buy with $ 30 MM: A: nothing.. So.. look at non-monetary remuneration and or the ability to self direct a players career, geographically, as part of the value in the extension..

at least that's imho... your thoughts?
Click to expand...

First off, Bieber is likely due 35 million or less over the next 2 seasons in arbitration... Taking an extension would guarantee him more in 23 and 24... Though he could get more if he gets to free agency in 25... He would also get to Free Agency in his age 30 season...

If I was his agent I'd look at 5/120 with maybe a bonus for Cy Young and All-Star appearances... Though if he waits and stays healthy, he would merit a 3/105 or a 4/140 area deal in 25... I'd lean towards free agency, but if he likes it in Cleveland then a 5/120 area is where the deal would have to be at...

(Ps. You did argue with me about JRam's contract and I was pretty dang close to the money he would get. Don't argue Bieber should get more than 35 over the next two seasons in Arbitration. I am guessing it's probably gonna be 12 and 20 for 23 and 24 respectively if he stays healthy and does well. 120 is an AAV of 24... That would be near 30 million a season in 25,26,27 seasons if the AAV wasn't evened out over the 5 years. If you add Cy Young and All-Star incentives, it would make it North of 30 if he gets the awards... He guarantees his money by taking the Contract, but he could earn more betting on himself...
 
The other thing to keep n mind when it comes to Bieber future contracts, he got a pretty big scare last summer with his arm problems, even now he not popping 93/94 like he was before…..,that could be by design…..But I’m sure that going to play in his mind when it comes to his new contract talk, especially since he won’t see FA for another 2 years……
 
Someone posted this on FanGraphs. I had to nab it. A lot is probably cherry picked but the similarities are pretty great.

2014-15 Royals

Hitters
SB 1st
K% 30th
BB% 30th
ISO 29th
wRC+ 22nd
WPA 13th
Clutch 1st

Relievers
ERA- 1st
FIP- 5th
WPA 1st

2022 Guardians

Hitters
SB 3rd
K% 30th
BB% 26th
ISO 29th
wRC+ 19th
WPA 13th
Clutch 5th

Relievers
ERA- 4th
FIP- 5th
WPA 1st
 
Why not just turn Amed into the epitome of a utility player at the point Arias, Rocchio or Freeman take over as the regular SS?

Start him as the DH regularly, measure his level of comfort at every infield position or corner OF spots on days you want to flex someone else into the DH spot.

Play him wherever you believe he can be a capable defender.

LF - Kwan
DH - Rosario
3B - Ramirez
1B - Naylor
RF - Gonzalez & Nolan Jones
2B - Gimenez
SS - EYT (Elite Young Talent)
C - Naylor
CF - Straw
 
AZ_ said:
Why not just turn Amed into the epitome of a utility player at the point Arias, Rocchio or Freeman take over as the regular SS?

Start him as the DH regularly, measure his level of comfort at every infield position or corner OF spots on days you want to flex someone else into the DH spot.

Play him wherever you believe he can be a capable defender.

LF - Kwan
DH - Rosario
3B - Ramirez
1B - Naylor
RF - Gonzalez & Nolan Jones
2B - Gimenez
SS - EYT (Elite Young Talent)
C - Naylor
CF - Straw
Click to expand...
If Amed is here next season he'll be the every day SS. Arias goes to the Owen Miller role but even then what do they do with Freeman and then Rocchio?
 
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