• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

2022 Season | Series #49 | Rays @ Guardians | Sep. 27-29, 2022

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Lee said:
What do you think of Arias? The rest of our middle infielders? I am not asking to argue, i just know you have an opinion I value, not trying to start fights, I just know you have been excited about our kids like many others on here, and Arias comes up as a top level prospect alot.
Click to expand...

Here is what I think, and my opinion hasn't changed for a while.

Chocolate or vanilla?

Rocchio or Arias?

Both are good, both are different and resonate more with certain people, and both are highly popular amongst other dessert lovers.

Arias has the most boom or bust to his game. As you saw last night, has monster power for a middle infielder and the ability to be a middle of the order, 25+ HR guy at a premium defensive position, which is arguably the most valuable position group in baseball right now. Is starting to develop on-base skills and BB more while K'ing slightly less than his minor league career averages. Some swing and miss with his game, comes with the territory of young guys with pop, so concerns there. But plus-plus infield arm, easy range, right-handed power bat. A lot to like there. And he's one of those athletes that piss you off because it doesn't look like they're trying in anything they do, but they are doing things people can't do when trying their hardest. He's tall for his position group and he's smooth, so often he is considered lazy.

Rocchio has a higher floor, and in a shiftless MLB probably has more value defensively at SS than Arias because he has more side-to-side range. He's more of a top of the order or bottom of the order bat at the moment. Already has developed on-base skills, not a ton of swing and miss offensively, is slowly growing into more and more pop though he has to sit on pitches and jump them to drive them, as opposed to how someone like Arias or Oscar Gonzalez can generate pop even when they are fooled. He is a switch-hitter, but almost all of his HR power comes against RHP from the left side of the plate. Is a plus baserunner who would fit in with a lineup where it feels like everyone is pushing 20 SBs. And then he is the closest thing with regards to leadership and on-field captaincy skills we have seen since Lindor.

But still, my favorite middle-infield prospect is Angel Martinez. He is my red velvet. He was aggressively assigned last season as a 19 year old so had a bit of a down season. Switch hitter, plus-plus defensively at 2B, average at SS, plus swing and miss skills, plus-plus OBP skills, growing into good pop with the ability to be a 30+ 2B, 20 HR guy down the line, plus runner. He's like Arias and Rocchio combined into a mashup of skills, minus the plus ability at SS. Tall, smooth, and is flirting heavily towards being a 5 plus tool guy as his power develops. As a 20 year old he just put up .278/.378/.471 season split between A+ and AA. Neither Rocchio or Arias have ever posted a season OPS that high at any level. And I've thrown up the "AA is the hardest jump to make in the minors" line way too much over my years here which should make that slash line all the more impressive. He's special. Son of a former MLB player, for those who like pedigree.

Those are the big 3.

Freeman and Tena have some say as well, but I think Tena is their best expendable trade chip at the moment, as far as prospects go.
 
BimboColesHair said:
Here is what I think, and my opinion hasn't changed for a while.

Chocolate or vanilla?

Rocchio or Arias?

Both are good, both are different and resonate more with certain people, and both are highly popular amongst other dessert lovers.

Arias has the most boom or bust to his game. As you saw last night, has monster power for a middle infielder and the ability to be a middle of the order, 25+ HR guy at a premium defensive position, which is arguably the most valuable position group in baseball right now. Is starting to develop on-base skills and BB more while K'ing slightly less than his minor league career averages. Some swing and miss with his game, comes with the territory of young guys with pop, so concerns there. But plus-plus infield arm, easy range, right-handed power bat. A lot to like there. And he's one of those athletes that piss you off because it doesn't look like they're trying in anything they do, but they are doing things people can't do when trying their hardest. He's tall for his position group and he's smooth, so often he is considered lazy.

Rocchio has a higher floor, and in a shiftless MLB probably has more value defensively at SS than Arias because he has more side-to-side range. He's more of a top of the order or bottom of the order bat at the moment. Already has developed on-base skills, not a ton of swing and miss offensively, is slowly growing into more and more pop though he has to sit on pitches and jump them to drive them, as opposed to how someone like Arias or Oscar Gonzalez can generate pop even when they are fooled. He is a switch-hitter, but almost all of his HR power comes against RHP from the left side of the plate. Is a plus baserunner who would fit in with a lineup where it feels like everyone is pushing 20 SBs. And then he is the closest thing with regards to leadership and on-field captaincy skills we have seen since Lindor.

But still, my favorite middle-infield prospect is Angel Martinez. He is my red velvet. He was aggressively assigned last season as a 19 year old so had a bit of a down season. Switch hitter, plus-plus defensively at 2B, average at SS, plus swing and miss skills, plus-plus OBP skills, growing into good pop with the ability to be a 30+ 2B, 20 HR guy down the line, plus runner. He's like Arias and Rocchio combined into a mashup of skills, minus the plus ability at SS. Tall, smooth, and is flirting heavily towards being a 5 plus tool guy as his power develops. As a 20 year old he just put up .278/.378/.471 season split between A+ and AA. Neither Rocchio or Arias have ever posted a season OPS that high at any level. And I've thrown up the "AA is the hardest jump to make in the minors" line way too much over my years here which should make that slash line all the more impressive. He's special. Son of a former MLB player, for those who like pedigree.

Those are the big 3.

Freeman and Tena have some say as well, but I think Tena is their best expendable trade chip at the moment, as far as prospects go.
Click to expand...

So all will get a chance at the majors right?

Arias is ready next year, Rocchio the year after then Angel in 2 years? I know we have a block at 3rd base for years to come, but if Arias is such a big bat with power, any chance he plays 1st in the future? I would love to see us extend Giminez early and I know he is a plus defender at SS, but I like the fact he is gold glove level at 2nd.

You gave me more info than you usually commit too because i know its hard to predict and I get like Kwan, its impossible to know how the play at the major league level till they are there, I guess Jose was another example of this. I dont know these guys and Arias is huge for a young kid...I mean so is Oscar, but Oscar doesnt play SS, lol. Like that homerun from Arias was like holy shit he can hit it a ton.

Am I wrong on Giminez? The kid feels special to me. Like pay to keep him around special. Do you make him do it for another year before we extend? He has 1 year of team control then 3 years of ARB, but I would argue best 2b we have had since Robbie Alomar, better than Baerga and I loved Baerga.

I appreciate your insight and the time you took, allot of this is me being excited with all the young talented kids and not following the minors or knowing baseball anywhere close to as well as I know football and basketball. I sucked at baseball and just never learned it like the 2 sports I played in high school, although i was much better at football than basketball, lol.

Thanks again.
 
Lee said:
So all will get a chance at the majors right?

Arias is ready next year, Rocchio the year after then Angel in 2 years? I know we have a block at 3rd base for years to come, but if Arias is such a big bat with power, any chance he plays 1st in the future? I would love to see us extend Giminez early and I know he is a plus defender at SS, but I like the fact he is gold glove level at 2nd.

You gave me more info than you usually commit too because i know its hard to predict and I get like Kwan, its impossible to know how the play at the major league level till they are there, I guess Jose was another example of this. I dont know these guys and Arias is huge for a young kid...I mean so is Oscar, but Oscar doesnt play SS, lol. Like that homerun from Arias was like holy shit he can hit it a ton.

Am I wrong on Giminez? The kid feels special to me. Like pay to keep him around special. Do you make him do it for another year before we extend? He has 1 year of team control then 3 years of ARB, but I would argue best 2b we have had since Robbie Alomar, better than Baerga and I loved Baerga.

I appreciate your insight and the time you took, allot of this is me being excited with all the young talented kids and not following the minors or knowing baseball anywhere close to as well as I know football and basketball. I sucked at baseball and just never learned it like the 2 sports I played in high school, although i was much better at football than basketball, lol.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
what else do "stay at home dads" have to do besides respond?????
 
@BimboColesHair

How do you cram JRam, Arias, and Gimenez into an infield? Just reading about the way you describe Arias he sounds like he would be an elite 3B, but maybe not so much a 2B. I guess the obvious answer would be to throw him at SS but he doesn't seem so plus there, while Gimenez still should be.

Is moving JRam to 2B something that is thought about at all in the context of an Arias breakthrough? I remember the Blue Jays thought about trading for him to do exactly that. His arm strength is also quite low looking at Statcast numbers, but still has a solid glove.

Is having a plus 2B more/less important when getting rid of the shift? It's one guy covering more area but he can't play as deep.
 
I'm no bimbo, but I'll take a stab at it.

KluberSociety said:
@BimboColesHair

How do you cram JRam, Arias, and Gimenez into an infield?
Click to expand...
Ramirez at 3B, Arias at SS, Gime at 2B. Seems like a simple question to field.

KluberSociety said:
Just reading about the way you describe Arias he sounds like he would be an elite 3B, but maybe not so much a 2B. I guess the obvious answer would be to throw him at SS but he doesn't seem so plus there, while Gimenez still should be.

Is moving JRam to 2B something that is thought about at all in the context of an Arias breakthrough? I remember the Blue Jays thought about trading for him to do exactly that. His arm strength is also quite low looking at Statcast numbers, but still has a solid glove.

Is having a plus 2B more/less important when getting rid of the shift? It's one guy covering more area but he can't play as deep.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any chance of Jose moving to 2B or SS. I think it's more likely we see him move to 1B, DH or LF before he moves back to the middle infield.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LL3
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I'm no bimbo, but I'll take a stab at it.


Ramirez at 3B, Arias at SS, Gime at 2B. Seems like a simple question to field.


I don't think there's any chance of Jose moving to 2B or SS. I think it's more likely we see him move to 1B, DH or LF before he moves back to the middle infield.
Click to expand...
SS is a big no-no of course for JRam but I think Arias 3B / Gime SS / JRam 2B would upgrade both 3B and SS significantly, while losing some at 2B but I'm thinking it might be a net plus? I don't know. Either way he could actually move to something like 1B while Martinez or Rocchio would handle 2B or SS. Arias 3B / Rocchio SS / Gimenez 2B, or Arias 3B / Gimenez SS / Martinez 2B.

This is a very specific context so I don't really expect it to even play out this way but I think the pluses might slightly outweigh the minuses mainly because there's two of them (3B / SS).
 
Arias doesn't have as much range as Rocchio, but he has more than Amed. Amed has arguably the worst side-to-side range for an everyday SS in baseball.

So yeah, pretty easy one. If they are wanting to keep Gimenez at 2B moving forward (not fully sold on this one) you just plug Arias in at SS.

And Jose will be at 3B until he is a DH. He was promised no more position changes a few years back.
 
Why no afternoon game today? It’s a travel day, for the Rays.
 
Lee said:
So all will get a chance at the majors right?

Arias is ready next year, Rocchio the year after then Angel in 2 years? I know we have a block at 3rd base for years to come, but if Arias is such a big bat with power, any chance he plays 1st in the future? I would love to see us extend Giminez early and I know he is a plus defender at SS, but I like the fact he is gold glove level at 2nd.

You gave me more info than you usually commit too because i know its hard to predict and I get like Kwan, its impossible to know how the play at the major league level till they are there, I guess Jose was another example of this. I dont know these guys and Arias is huge for a young kid...I mean so is Oscar, but Oscar doesnt play SS, lol. Like that homerun from Arias was like holy shit he can hit it a ton.

Am I wrong on Giminez? The kid feels special to me. Like pay to keep him around special. Do you make him do it for another year before we extend? He has 1 year of team control then 3 years of ARB, but I would argue best 2b we have had since Robbie Alomar, better than Baerga and I loved Baerga.

I appreciate your insight and the time you took, allot of this is me being excited with all the young talented kids and not following the minors or knowing baseball anywhere close to as well as I know football and basketball. I sucked at baseball and just never learned it like the 2 sports I played in high school, although i was much better at football than basketball, lol.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I think Arias is ready now.

Just had to get over the hump after breaking his hand. His numbers at the plate between AAA/MLB the last month and a half have been eye-opening, big reason he got promoted back this season. He doesn't have much left to prove at the AAA level and his options clock is ticking. Time to see if he can help your MLB club (which he has been his 1st 3 games back).

But Rocchio will be approaching ready early to mid-season next season and then Martinez later next season or early the following year. They are all close. Means tough decisions are to be made here shortly, but it is a very good problem to have. They can either move guys around to get their bats into the lineup or move them for ready now players when they're in their contention window.

Arias is already playing some 1B and it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't make a move for a vet RH 1B in the offseason and Amed is still on the roster that he assumes the Owen Miller role and plays 1B vs LHP, on top of SS, 2B, and 3B. Owen's role has generated almost 500 PAs, which is more than enough to give a young player you want to give reps to.

They'll absolutely approach Gimenez about an extension this winter.

He is special. Legit 5 tool guy and the power should only get better as he continues to mature. Also turning into a rarity that we don't see much of these days at the MLB level. The platoon proof left-handed hitter. Guardians now have 2 of those.

My insight is the worst. I appreciate the compliments though.
 
BimboColesHair said:
I think Arias is ready now.

Just had to get over the hump after breaking his hand. His numbers at the plate between AAA/MLB the last month and a half have been eye-opening, big reason he got promoted back this season. He doesn't have much left to prove at the AAA level and his options clock is ticking. Time to see if he can help your MLB club (which he has been his 1st 3 games back).
Click to expand...

Just to add to this, since I keep mentioning how he has swung the bat over the last month and a half.

Since 8/10, including his 1st 3 MLB games back: .278/.366/.459 slash (.825 OPS), 11.7% BB rate, 20% K rate.

Over his last month that slash is .290/.402/.461 with a 16.3% BB rate and a 20% K rate.

Kid is hot, seeing the ball very well, and gets to play in stress free MLB games. Perfect time to get him in there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top