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Game Thread | Knicks playoff series Game #4 | Cavs @ Knicks | April 23, 2023 | 1:00 p.m. ABC

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benchplayer said:
Our defense is fine, the problem is the offense high school level.
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Yea, and that's why they need to be split up.

But anyone upset at the defense is getting caught up in specific moments.

The Knicks have NBA players, too. They're going to hit some shots occasionally.

It's easy to get mad in the moment when Josh Hart lays it up over Allen's head, but look at the whole context. The Knicks aren't scoring for shit and that's largely due to Allen and Mobley.


Unfortunately the Cavs are scoring even less and that's also largely due to Allen and Mobley.
 
nolookpass said:
This loss is on Mitchell. Garland had it going in the second half, and Mitchell got the ball and immediately started chucking terrible shots. Oh, and whoever was supposed to box out Josh Hart.

This team needs more hustle guys like Hart, Hartenstein, etc. They don't have any outside of Stevens. We need another Varejao, Delly, etc.
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We need some more names that begin with H. Haliburton.
 
Jscc said:
Why is that ridiculous? We are about to lose to the Knicks.
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They were the 8 seed in the west and are much further in all of their player’s development. Just stop.
 
Rich said:
I challenge you to find a Utah team he was on with poor spacing.

Those starting units had 4 guys who all shot 38% from 3 or higher on high volume and Rudy Gobert.

Spacing to the max.



And this is what I'll say: Despite all of his big playoff games, he's now staring down the barrel of losing THREE series that his team was favored in w/o making the conference finals.


They were favored to beat Denver. Then they were HEAVILY favored to beat a Clippers team down Kawhi, and now this.



And every time man, it's something. He scores 50 points multiple times against Denver but, whoopsie, Jamaal Murray scores even more.


Ultimately, I'm sticking to my initial thoughts on Mitchell: there is no such thing as a franchise 6'3 shooting guard. Being tall in the NBA matters, and if you aren't tall you need to have elite point skills to carry a team. Really carry a team.
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I challenge that. For example, in the 2018/19 season, their starting lineup was Rubio (31%), Mitchell, Crowder (33%), Ingles (39%, the only one over 38%) and Gobert.

2017/2018 - O'Neal, Mitchell, Crowder, Ingles, Gobert. Ingles was lights out, everyone else was under 36%. And O'Neal only attempted 1.7 3P a game. They had Jonas Jerebko but he took 2 a game.

2019/2020 they lost Bogdanovic for the playoffs so their lineup was the same as the year prior.

2020/2021 they finally had a good team, lost Conley before the 2nd round. Mitchell averaged 33 points a game that playoffs and it went to game 6. He also had 39/9/9 in game 6. Can't really blame him there.

2021/2022 aging roster, lost Ingles, Mitchell played poorly. Can blame him for a bit here.

I don't think you're looking at it as a whole. That's like saying LeBron was at fault for not making the finals his last few years in Cleveland in his first stint.

Edit - all that being said he's shrunk smaller than testicles in ice water in New York.
 
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kookoo said:
I challenge that. For example, in the 2018/19 season, their starting lineup was Rubio (31%), Mitchell, Crowder (33%), Ingles (39%, the only one over 38%) and Gobert.

2017/2018 - O'Neal, Mitchell, Crowder, Ingles, Gobert. Ingles was lights out, everyone else was under 36%. And O'Neal only attempted 1.7 3P a game. They had Jonas Jerebko but he took 2 a game.

2019/2020 they lost Bogdanovic for the playoffs so their lineup was the same as the year prior.

2020/2021 they finally had a good team, lost Conley before the 2nd round. Mitchell averaged 33 points a game that playoffs and it went to game 6. He also had 39/9/9 in game 6. Can't really blame him there.

2021/2022 aging roster, lost Ingles, Mitchell played poorly. Can blame him for a bit here.

I don't think you're looking at it as a whole. That's like saying LeBron was at fault for not making the finals his last few years in Cleveland in his first stint.

Edit - all that being said he's shrunk smaller than testicles in ice water in New York.
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Oh I'm putting that Denver series on him because everything he scored he gave right back to Murray.

And I'm gonna put that Clippers series on him because, again, he was terrible defensively. Reggie Jackson, a JAG, went nuclear that whole series.

Was he THE reason they lost? No.


But what it shows is that, well, there's no such thing as a 6'3 franchise level shooting guard. Those aren't a thing. And he's no exception.

He will never be the best player on a contender. Ever. I will stand by that until he proves me wrong.
 
Rich said:
Oh I'm putting that Denver series on him because everything he scored he gave right back to Murray.

And I'm gonna put that Clippers series on him because, again, he was terrible defensively. Reggie Jackson, a JAG, went nuclear that whole series.

Was he THE reason they lost? No.


But what it shows is that, well, there's no such thing as a 6'3 franchise level shooting guard. Those aren't a thing. And he's no exception.

He will never be the best player on a contender. Ever. I will stand by that until he proves me wrong.
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I guess that's fair. I still think he plays bigger than 6'3 and has been solid defensively this series outside of when he guards Brunson. But I get you. I'd much rather have a lineup with normal size. This organization does not know how to build a team of normal sized humans for the sport. It's like a freakshow where you're either tiny or massive.
 
Rich said:
Oh I'm putting that Denver series on him because everything he scored he gave right back to Murray.

And I'm gonna put that Clippers series on him because, again, he
But what it shows is that, well, there's no such thing as a 6'3 franchise level shooting guard. Those aren't a thing. And he's no exception.

He will never be the best player on a contender. Ever. I will stand by that until he proves me wrong.
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Mitchell’s not even 6’3. Steph Curry is perhaps the greatest player on NBA history sized 6’2 and under - there have been very few small guards ever who could be the best player on a championship team. Curry and who else? Chris Paul almost but not really. Isaiah Thomas? Stockton if he hadn’t run into Jordan? But Malone was maybe the best player on that team and Stockton was 1b? Jerry West at 6’3?
 
this series is so predictable.. no shooting or spacing or offensive system.. plus in the playoffs everyone plays defense hard.. fire JBB he’s a pumpkin
 
cavsfever said:
Mitchell’s not even 6’3. Steph Curry is perhaps the greatest player on NBA history sized 6’2 and under - there have been very few small guards ever who could be the best player on a championship team. Curry and who else? Chris Paul almost but not really. Isaiah Thomas? Stockton if he hadn’t run into Jordan? But Malone was maybe the best player on that team and Stockton was 1b? Jerry West at 6’3?
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Steph, Zeke and Jerry were all much better than Spyda imho.
 
Rich said:
I agree that they need broken up, but how is their brand of "defense" not flying lol.

The Knicks are shooting like 42% from the field and averaging 100 points a game.

What about their defense isn't working? Someone, please explain this to me.

Should the Cavs be holding them to 88 points a game or something here?
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I agree with your point generally, but that low Opp. FG% is compensated for somewhat by the offensive rebounds they get, and defensive rebounding is a major part of playing good defense.
 
Yes it's been disappointing.

Yes JBB is in way over his head.

With that said the mission is still the same as it was before this game. They need to take care of business in the 2 home contests and scratch/claw to win the game at MSG. That's it.
 
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