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Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…

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Did Koby Altman nail the rebuild?


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Even forgetting the Barnes trade, I don't think the Mitchell trade helped our record much. We won 44 games the year before and were on a pace to win 52 before 3/4 of the lineup ended up in the hospital over the last month and a half when we went 9-16. And that was with Sexton already missing almost the entire year. The league never really did figure out how to stop us with Lauri playing the 3, replacing him with Okoro destroyed our spacing and hurt our rebounding. Of course adding A superstar like Mitchell enabled us to win the close games, except of course for the fact we were among the worst in the league in close games.
Where I fault Altman and some others in here have said is the fact he let seveal players walk who were actually better than a few that he signed and yet were not really used.
He didn't replace Love with a big body who could rebound and with Wade having his issues.
He stayed pat at the trade deadline..another big mistake. I did not like that decision at all .
Don't quote me..but I;m sure it was Fedor who said that Altman wasn't going to bring in anyone that Bickerstiff wouldn't trust more than his bench..ok..but he didn't trust his bench, so what does that say???
The team lacks shooting..and he knows that.
Like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches.
Now he's forced to do something this offseason.
 
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Even forgetting the Barnes trade, I don't think the Mitchell trade helped our record much. We won 44 games the year before and were on a pace to win 52 before 3/4 of the lineup ended up in the hospital over the last month and a half when we went 9-16. And that was with Sexton already missing almost the entire year. The league never really did figure out how to stop us with Lauri playing the 3, replacing him with Okoro destroyed our spacing and hurt our rebounding. Of course adding A superstar like Mitchell enabled us to win the close games, except of course for the fact we were among the worst in the league in close games.

The three towers lineup was a novelty during the first half of the season, but it wasn't effective in the second half or the play-in. Teams figured out you just have to attack Lauri's defense. He could guard larger/slower SFs, but he had no shot against guys like Trae, Kyrie, and KD. He scored 26 points against Atlanta, but it didn't matter because the guy attacking him [Young] finished with 39 points.
 
This stuff about how Lauri would have been a mediocre player if he stayed here is an even harsher judgement on the Cavs organization than criticizing the trade is.

Lauri is a whole hell of a lot easier player to develop offensively than Mobley is, so I guess shit is hopeless with Mobley.
Homie, the point is that they’re competing for the same touches and at the same position.
 
guys can make the leap their second season on a new team and there is nothing to say that lauri couldve spent 20 at the three and 15 at the four which is what i suggested he would play this season prior to the trade.


you have your opinion about the trade and i have mine. fortunately well know in less than three months how its all going to go down after free agency where some people here are already believing that a mitchell trade has to be explored....which is failure in whatever the cavs get back for donovan.

the trade to me is an inveivtable failure because of what i believe is going to happen this off season with the inability for cavs to get anything of value in free agency. the only question now is the extent of said failure. although it was a different era, markennan put up mvp dirk numbers last year. if he can do it again next year after teams have an entire off season to break down the tape then the cavaliers have arguably traded prime dirk nowitki along with three first round picks, first round pick agbaji and the rights to colin sexton(first round pick) for donovan mitchell

thats horrible

it could very well could go down as one the worst trades in the 2020s if not the worst.

now, does anyone see anyway that the cavs, without any picks and with no intention of going into the tax next season, see a way on how they are going to convert 19mm(12mm and cedis 7) into a 20 minute big off the bench, a back up point guard and a 35 minute starting small forward to bring cleveland back into contention?

and thats if okoro can give them 20 off the bench as a playoff rotational player next year and levert or an equivalent signs a contract. what if levert walks?

its not looking good....its not looking good at all.
“prime dirk nowitzki”

Get some help man. This is laughable.

Prime Dirk Nowitzki was literally an MVP of the league.

Lauri made all-NBA *checks notes* moral victory team.
 
“prime dirk nowitzki”

Get some help man. This is laughable.

Prime Dirk Nowitzki was literally an MVP of the league.

Lauri made all-NBA *checks notes* moral victory team.

markennan put up mvp dirk numbers last year. if he can do it again next year after teams have an entire off season to break down the tape then the cavaliers have arguably traded prime dirk nowitki along with three first round picks, first round pick agbaji and the rights to colin sexton(first round pick) for donovan mitchell


nobody makes all nba team after one year...maybe .if you took off your koby goggles for a minute you wouldve read that i said mark put up mvp dirk numbers last year and that if he could do it two years in a row you arguably can say that he could be equivalent to prime dirk



if mark keeps putting up these mvp dirk numbers like he did last year when can you say he could arguably be prime dirk?...after two years of these mvp dirk numbers?...three?...four?


your hero koby did it last year with darius garland....after one good year....gave dg prime kyrie money







so who needs help, now?

other than koby.....whose about to encounter an epic shitshow clusterfuk after this years fee agency ends?
 
markennan put up mvp dirk numbers last year. if he can do it again next year after teams have an entire off season to break down the tape then the cavaliers have arguably traded prime dirk nowitki along with three first round picks, first round pick agbaji and the rights to colin sexton(first round pick) for donovan mitchell


nobody makes all nba team after one year...maybe .if you took off your koby goggles for a minute you wouldve read that i said mark put up mvp dirk numbers last year and that if he could do it two years in a row you arguably can say that he could be equivalent to prime dirk



if mark keeps putting up these mvp dirk numbers like he did last year when can you say he could arguably be prime dirk?...after two years of these mvp dirk numbers?...three?...four?


your hero koby did it last year with darius garland....after one good year....gave dg prime kyrie money







so who needs help, now?

other than koby.....whose about to encounter an epic shitshow clusterfuk after this years fee agency ends?
You keep saying he’s my hero but I’ve yet to say anything close to that. I’ve actually been very judgemental of a lot of the things Altman has done and not done.

I’ve responded to things you’ve actually yourself said. You have responded with hyperbole.

Lauri can be compared to an NBA MVP when he wins MVP, or even comes close. Comparing him to a hall of famer is laughable man. He had a great season on a bad team. That stuff happens every year. If he continues to get that kind of usage rate, he’s going to score points.

Until Lauri is a top option on a good team, I’m going to choose to believe he’s not that kind of player. He’s a nice piece, but he’s not a star.

Garland got a rookie max extension coming off a third year all star leap. That’s par for the course and I don’t think it was ever considered not to do that.

FWIW, id rather have Garland today than Kyrie Irving, let alone going forward. I think most nba front offices would feel the same seeing how little he returned on the trade market.

I guess I’m not sure what *this free agency* has to do with the Donovan Mitchell trade. The Cavs’ assets they used to get him weren’t going to create more cap space. If a player better than Donovan Mitchell gets moved this summer for a package worse than the Cavs gave up for him, then this point will have some relativity.
 


you wouldnt need donovan at the deadline.....a guy like josh hart wouldve been just fine

do i take lauri, hart, sexton(QO) and agbaji collectively over donovan and his 30 from the 3 against the knicks?

yes.

un-fukn-equivocally

serioulsy...¨trudged¨ through the season? i dont think too many teams that sport a top 5 defense with a guy who puts up 25/9 on 50/40/87 are going to be trudging through anything
Nothing is more tiresome then providing contextless stats.

Or grading the trade after 1 year

Or assuming that just because they had picks to offer they would be the winner of a Josh Hart sweepstakes.
 
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markennan put up mvp dirk numbers last year. if he can do it again next year after teams have an entire off season to break down the tape then the cavaliers have arguably traded prime dirk nowitki along with three first round picks, first round pick agbaji and the rights to colin sexton(first round pick) for donovan mitchell


nobody makes all nba team after one year...maybe .if you took off your koby goggles for a minute you wouldve read that i said mark put up mvp dirk numbers last year and that if he could do it two years in a row you arguably can say that he could be equivalent to prime dirk



if mark keeps putting up these mvp dirk numbers like he did last year when can you say he could arguably be prime dirk?...after two years of these mvp dirk numbers?...three?...four?


your hero koby did it last year with darius garland....after one good year....gave dg prime kyrie money







so who needs help, now?

other than koby.....whose about to encounter an epic shitshow clusterfuk after this years fee agency ends?
When I want to go to purchase some hyperbole and exaggeration, I now know directly where to go for it.

Mitchell has had bad playoff series. He’s also had near record settling dominant playoff series.

Lauri has still yet to face and experience the intensity and tighter defenses of 7 game playoff series. In fact, after a red hit October-December, his FG% and 3P % went down every month after that.
So slow down with your Dirk talk and maybe start posting with a little more balance and a little less agressive hyoerbole.

And I like Lauri. Think he’s a good player for sure. But in light of you wilding with the Dirk talk had to at least present that facts that he has still never been tested in the playoffs and that once teams started keying in on him, his efficiency and shooting dropped from January on every month
 

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This stuff about how Lauri would have been a mediocre player if he stayed here is an even harsher judgement on the Cavs organization than criticizing the trade is.

Lauri is a whole hell of a lot easier player to develop offensively than Mobley is, so I guess shit is hopeless with Mobley.

I would say it's a criticism on the coaching staff if they weren't able to recognize Lauri making the leap after the summer and not utilize him. Also I would say if they weren't able to utilize Lauri who was more developed, I'm not sure Mobley has a chance to excel with this coaching staff.

I also think Lauri would have made developing Mobley easier. Lauri's skill set was basically the opposite of Allen's so it gave a good range that Mobley could have the freedom to find where he could excel without the pressure to mold his skill set to a specific pairing.
 
We will go as far as Mobley and Garland will take us.We have no assets through the 2029 draft. Tanking is not possible. A lot of you are lost. If the Cavs end up a perennial playoff team that can't make the Finals, we are what we are.
 
We will go as far as Mobley and Garland will take us.We have no assets through the 2029 draft. Tanking is not possible. A lot of you are lost. If the Cavs end up a perennial playoff team that can't make the Finals, we are what we are.
And is it that bad if we are a perennial playoff team either?

Hopefully people appreciate just how rare one championship is. For every Warriors or Heat(3 titles in 8 years), most NBA franchises go years or even decades without reaching a conference finals, let alone NBA finals.

There are teams that are stuck in the lottery for 5/8/10 years.

Even the sexy, Process like gazillion draft pick Burks after ZERO guarantees.

OKC drafted three hall of Famers in b2b2b drafts and reached the finals once, losing.

The Philly “Process”, has yet to yield a ECF appearance.

The current OKC build looks sexy as hell but there are still no guarantees that they get the right combination of players that will equal a championship.

So people should be a little less harsh on the idea that maybe the best we get from the Garland/Mobley/Mitchell era is being a perennial playoff participant. Of course we want more and we should aim higher, but historical odds are against us and 80% of the franchises in any given year.
 
You keep saying he’s my hero but I’ve yet to say anything close to that. I’ve actually been very judgemental of a lot of the things Altman has done and not done.

I’ve responded to things you’ve actually yourself said. You have responded with hyperbole.

Lauri can be compared to an NBA MVP when he wins MVP, or even comes close. Comparing him to a hall of famer is laughable man. He had a great season on a bad team. That stuff happens every year. If he continues to get that kind of usage rate, he’s going to score points.

Until Lauri is a top option on a good team, I’m going to choose to believe he’s not that kind of player. He’s a nice piece, but he’s not a star.

Garland got a rookie max extension coming off a third year all star leap. That’s par for the course and I don’t think it was ever considered not to do that.

FWIW, id rather have Garland today than Kyrie Irving, let alone going forward. I think most nba front offices would feel the same seeing how little he returned on the trade market.

I guess I’m not sure what *this free agency* has to do with the Donovan Mitchell trade. The Cavs’ assets they used to get him weren’t going to create more cap space. If a player better than Donovan Mitchell gets moved this summer for a package worse than the Cavs gave up for him, then this point will have some relativity.

i said lauri put up numbers similar to mvp dirk and if he could do it again you can make an argument that you could have dirk...you most certainly cannot say that he cannot nor ever will be this early in his career....koby just gave up prime kyrie money to dg and darius has never put up irving numbers....ever.

and if what darius did in his third year is a leap...going from 17/6 to 21/8...what would you consider lauri to have done going from 15/6 to 26/9?

and the reason why kyrie returned so very little on the trade market is becasue he was ufa and a three month rental. why does something like this even need to be explained to you?
 
We will go as far as Mobley and Garland will take us.We have no assets through the 2029 draft. Tanking is not possible. A lot of you are lost. If the Cavs end up a perennial playoff team that can't make the Finals, we are what we are.
Also, we do have assets though. Not as many as we’d like of course but the second we make our picks in 2024, 2026, or 2028 they can be traded. It just has to happen on or after draft night or those specific years. Or we hope they become ready to contribute draftees from day one in the way a guy like Desmond Bane was.

And then starting July of 2024 we can trade our 2031 pick at any time.

Okoro/Allen both have some value.

It’s Possible(though unlikely) that Travers or Diop become players that either help us or have trade value to other teams. Not counting on it at all, but it is still a small possibility
 
We will go as far as Mobley and Garland will take us.We have no assets through the 2029 draft. Tanking is not possible. A lot of you are lost. If the Cavs end up a perennial playoff team that can't make the Finals, we are what we are.

Right. No protections and pick swaps in the other years, we have no control of our draft position going forward even if we trade players for picks. We will also most likely lose value with every subsequent trade we do with players. Without additional draft capital to include in trades, it will be real hard to make trades for better players. We also aren't loaded with depth or have expendable players in positions of high value.
 
i said lauri put up numbers similar to mvp dirk and if he could do it again you can make an argument that you could have dirk...you most certainly cannot say that he cannot nor ever will be this early in his career....koby just gave up prime kyrie money to dg and darius has never put up irving numbers....ever.

and if what darius did in his third year is a leap...going from 17/6 to 21/8...what would you consider lauri to have done going from 15/6 to 26/9?

and the reason why kyrie returned so very little on the trade market is becasue he was ufa and a three month rental. why does something like this even need to be explained to you?
Look into Usage.

Lauri’s leap came somewhat from a 7% increase in USG. Concerning though is as I pointed out, his efficiency and shooting went down every month from January on. But I’m not here to knock Lauri. He’s really good. And while occasionally teams can steal a player without giving up anyone good in return, usually there is a talent component you give up in a trade. I’ll continue to root for Lauri while being just fine that we moved him for Mitchell

DG’s leap from the 2020-2021 year was only attached to a 3% rise in usage. It’s actually impressive that DG’s stats maintained this year while his usage dropped due to Mitchell’s brilliance and ball dominance.
 

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