Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…

[gambler]

When I want to go to purchase some hyperbole and exaggeration, I now know directly where to go for it.

Mitchell has had bad playoff series. He’s also had near record settling dominant playoff series.

Lauri has still yet to face and experience the intensity and tighter defenses of 7 game playoff series. In fact, after a red hit October-December, his FG% and 3P % went down every month after that.
So slow down with your Dirk talk and maybe start posting with a little more balance and a little less agressive hyoerbole.

And I like Lauri. Think he’s a good player for sure. But in light of you wilding with the Dirk talk had to at least present that facts that he has still never been tested in the playoffs and that once teams started keying in on him, his efficiency and shooting dropped from January on every month

did you read what i said about if lauri could duplicate what he did last year into next year?...or did you just conveniently decide to disregard that?

agree about being playoff tested...some guys fold....like mitchell has done the last two playoffs shooting 30 from the three

when did ray allen ever shoot 30 from the 3 in the playoffs?

when he was 36 and in his ninth playoff year.....

 

[MirORich]

Right. No protections and pick swaps in the other years, we have no control of our draft position going forward even if we trade players for picks. We will also most likely lose value with every subsequent trade we do with players. Without additional draft capital to include in trades, it will be real hard to make trades for better players. We also aren't loaded with depth or have expendable players in positions of high value.

There no reason to believe those picks will be anything other than in the 20’s

Is their risk involved? Sure. But this is not a team of talent maxed out 32 years olds about to decline.

It’s a very young, very talented team that needs to continue to grow together while adding/developing talent/depth around the key guys

 

[MirORich]

did you read what i said about if lauri could duplicate what he did last year into next year?...or did you just conveniently decide to disregard that?

agree about being playoff tested...some guys fold....like mitchell has done the last two playoffs shooting 30 from the three

when did ray allen ever shoot 30 from the 3 in the playoffs?

when he was 36 and in his ninth playoff year.....

I would not want to duplicate his February through March.

Which was brought up not to critique him but to slow down your roll on suggesting his season last year was prime Dirk like.

And I already acknowledge Mitchell has had bad playoff series. He’s also had brilliant ones so it’s not a question of whether he’s capable of ever replicating his play style and performance in the playoffs. Obviously though, we would both agree he needs to step up big time im next years playoffs.

Lauri’s playoff performance is an unknown. He’s never been there. It could translate well. It might not. We both acknowledge the playoffs are a much different breed of basketball, right? So until we see how Lauri fares for the first time or for multiple series, it’s an unknown. Talented player though and I’ll be rooting for him unless there is ever a Jazz-Cavs NBA Finals.

Look, I’m not telling you to kiss the boot of Koby Altman. A lot of these thread titles are for humor and get changed often. Most people here recognize both the good and bad in Koby’s tenure and also recognize it’s a critical over the next two off seasons to really comeolte the roster so that when Mobley reaches his early prime, we are in the best position possible to compete for the ECF. I’m just reading through this thread and seeing you go hard with some hyperbole and what feels like some over exaggerations and thinking “hey, maybe be a little more even keeled with your critiques and you’ll find people more receptive”. But you be you and you don’t really have to give a F about what me or anyone else thinks of you don’t want to. Been posting here a long time and I’m sure a lot of people don’t like the way I post at times either lol

 

[gambler]

Look into Usage.

Lauri’s leap came somewhat from a 7% increase in USG. Concerning though is as I pointed out, his efficiency and shooting went down every month from January on. But I’m not here to knock Lauri. He’s really good. And while occasionally teams can steal a player without giving up anyone good in return, usually there is a talent component you give up in a trade. I’ll continue to root for Lauri while being just fine that we moved him for Mitchell

DG’s leap from the 2020-2021 year was only attached to a 3% rise in usage. It’s actually impressive that DG’s stats maintained this year while his usage dropped due to Mitchell’s brilliance and ball dominance.

i dont know how good luari will be until next season should he be healthy. you cannot sit here and say no...he can never be dirk but if he can do what he did statistically last year two years in a row you are closer to saying he could be than saying he cant.

RE DG....for whatever reason he tapered off this year...im not saying that he has reached his peak as its way too early....what i am saying is that the cavs signed him to kyrie money whereas he never had a year similar to lauris relative to dirks....

and im not saying markennan deserves dirk money even if he were to do it again next year

 

[gambler]

I would not want to duplicate his February through March.

Which was brought up not to critique him but to slow down your roll on suggesting his season last year was prime Dirk like.

And I already acknowledge Mitchell has had bad playoff series. He’s also had brilliant ones so it’s not a question of whether he’s capable of ever replicating his play style and performance in the playoffs. Obviously though, we would both agree he needs to step up big time im next years playoffs.

Lauri’s playoff performance is an unknown. He’s never been there. It could translate well. It might not. We both acknowledge the playoffs are a much different breed of basketball, right? So until we see how Lauri fares for the first time or for multiple series, it’s an unknown. Talented player though and I’ll be rooting for him unless there is ever a Jazz-Cavs NBA Finals

but last year markennas numbers were prime dirk....albeit in a different era where scoring might be 10 percent higher now than before.

if lauri puts up the same numbers next year as he did this year but does not go to the postseason.....and mitchell goes 30 from the 3 his third year in a row in the playoffs...

who do you take on a three year deal?

ok, then.

 

[MirORich]

RE DG....for whatever reason he tapered off this year...im not saying that he has reached his peak as its way too early....what i am saying is that the cavs signed him to kyrie money whereas he never had a year similar to lauris relative to dirks....

We know he and just about everybody on the team had a disappointing, underachieving playoffs. No dispute there.

If you actually look at DGs numbers from this season, it’s actually impressive because he had a player as ball dominant as Mitchell added like about three weeks before training camp started, which is a big change when just in July, DG was counted on being the de facto main orchestrator of the offense. So this change happens and his 3P percentage goes up, his 2P% goes up, his defense improves(still room for more improvement), his USG goes down slightly, and his TO’s go down.

As much as we have an image of carreless turnovers, the Cavs actually had few turnovers then their openers in something like 35 of the final 40 games of the regular season.

So yes, DG and DM both need to play better in the playoffs, but I would not call DGs year this season as a step back or even as a leveling off in any way

 

[gambler]

We know he and just about everybody on the team had a disappointing, underachieving playoffs. No dispute there.

If you actually look at DGs numbers from this season, it’s actually impressive because he had a player as ball dominant as Mitchell added like about three weeks before training camp started, which is a big change when just in July, DG was counted on being the de facto main orchestrator of the offense. So this change happens and his 3P percentage goes up, his 2P% goes up, his defense improves(still room for more improvement), his USG goes down slightly, and his TO’s go down.

As much as we have an image of carreless turnovers, the Cavs actually had few turnovers then their openers in something like 35 of the final 40 games of the regular season.

So yes, DG and DM both need to play better in the playoffs, but I would not call DGs year this season as a step back or even as a leveling off in any way

there is the regular season and then there are the playoffs.....

drive for show put for dough.

a lot of ooohs and ahhhhs going 300+ from the box and a lot of fuuuuuk and shiiiiit when missing the five footer

 

[MirORich]

there is the regular season and then there are the playoffs.....

drive for show put for dough.

a lot of ooohs and ahhhhs going 300+ from the box and a lot of fuuuuuk and shiiiiit when missing the five footer

Maybe we’re an exchange behind but I acknowledged the issue in the playoffs.

But the point you made was you thought DG had regressed from 2020-2021. If you’re only judging by the playoffs, then how can you make that call, when this season was DG’s first ever playoff appearance. He needs to be better. But that doesn’t change the fact that his 2021-2022 season was not a regression from the 2020-2021 season.

 

[gambler]

Maybe we’re an exchange behind but I acknowledged the issue in the playoffs.

But the point you made was you thought DG had regressed from 2020-2021. If you’re only judging by the playoffs, then how can you make that call, when this season was DG’s first ever playoff appearance. He needs to be better. But that doesn’t change the fact that his 2021-2022 season was not a regression from the 2020-2021 season.

its too early on dg...way too early....he could end up steve nash...

i was rude and answered the question for you...i am admittingly opinionated.... but tell me what you think about who has more value should mitchell shoot 30 from the 3 next post season...that being three in a row..... and lauri puts up the same numbers next year as last years but still remain completely untested in the playoffs....

who do you take on a three year deal?

right here right now?

 

[MirORich]

its too early on dg...way too early....he could end up steve nash...

i was rude and answered the question for you...i am admittingly opinionated.... but tell me what you think about who has more value should mitchell shoot 30 from the 3 next post season...that being three in a row..... and lauri puts up the same numbers next year as last years but still be completely untested in the playoffs good or bad....

who do you take on a three year deal?

I feel like I’m slightly cheating with this answer given I’m known or believed to be a JBB defender but I’m still giving the deal to Mitchell and then changing coaches.

Especially when in your hypothetical, we still haven’t seen how Lauri performs in the playoffs at the time the choice between the two needs to be made.

I think Laurie’s confidence rose but Jim Cleveland(being freed from the Center role the Bulls tried to shoehorn him into) and then with his great National Team performance last summer. But I still don’t think he has the innate confidence, leadership, and swagger that Dirk had and maintained the second he stepped on to the court in the NBA.

So yeah, I’m going to ride with Mitchell for the time being.

 

[gambler]

I feel like I’m slightly cheating with this answer given I’m known or believed to be a JBB defender but I’m still giving the deal to Mitchell and then changing coaches.

Especially when in your hypothetical, we still haven’t seen how Lauri performs in the playoffs at the time the choice between the two needs to be made.

I think Laurie’s confidence rose but Jim Cleveland(being freed from the Center role the Bulls tried to shoehorn him into) and then with his great National Team performance last summer. But I still don’t think he has the innate confidence, leadership, and swagger that Dirk had and maintained the second he stepped on to the court in the NBA.

So yeah, I’m going to ride with Mitchell for the time being.

ok.

im on lauri and would take the risk of the playoff unknown

you cant have a guy go 30 from the 3 three years in a row....whether it being mental like simmons wiht donovan shooting 40 in teh regular season....it doesnt matter. 30 from 3 at 8+ attempts a game for an undersized guard is not an a-level basketball player in the playoffs.

and thats why if the cavs are not going into the tax next season there is no reason to keep mitchell, especially if you can get three to four good first round picks for him now(not 26-30s). because the cavs are not going anywhere next year if they dont go into the tax and get players. what if mitchell shoots 30 from the three again next post season?...or even worse he suffers a season ending injury?.....or he just straight out bolts to miami, the knicks or the nets. and do you even want this guy at 5/250?...its like your keeping this donovan mitchell experience alive just not to lose. it no longer makes sense after the failures of rubio, wade and windler. theyre just too far behind...too many holes to fills without enough assets or salary to fill them

just too much risk in keeping mitchell with not enough reward(ecf). 30 form the 3 three years in a row, possible injury, possible walk in free agency....

 

[dms]

The three towers lineup was a novelty during the first half of the season, but it wasn't effective in the second half or the play-in. Teams figured out you just have to attack Lauri's defense. He could guard larger/slower SFs, but he had no shot against guys like Trae, Kyrie, and KD. He scored 26 points against Atlanta, but it didn't matter because the guy attacking him [Young] finished with 39 points.

It never had a chance in the second half. Markkanen was out from late January till late February. Allen was out from early March until the play in. Mobley missed a bunch of games. During the late Feb early March window when they had all 3 playing, Garland was out and our starting guards were Okoro and Goodwin!
And it's pure nonsense that Young torched Markkanen. The Cavs were a +8 with him on the floor, the highest on the team. In the 12 minutes he wasn't on the court they were at -14. If you want to talk torched look at Okoro and Love in that game. Okoro was at -14 in 21 minutes and Love was at -8 in 10 minutes.

 

[Bill Walton.]

Koby Altman.. FAKE SHARP!

 

[Cassity14]

i said lauri put up numbers similar to mvp dirk and if he could do it again you can make an argument that you could have dirk...you most certainly cannot say that he cannot nor ever will be this early in his career....koby just gave up prime kyrie money to dg and darius has never put up irving numbers....ever.

and if what darius did in his third year is a leap...going from 17/6 to 21/8...what would you consider lauri to have done going from 15/6 to 26/9?

and the reason why kyrie returned so very little on the trade market is becasue he was ufa and a three month rental. why does something like this even need to be explained to you?

Why are you so fixated on Garland and Irving as a comparison? In your mind, is Irving a comparable player to Dirk Nowitzki.

This whole back and forth started specifically because I laugh at the notion that Lauri Markennen is even in that level of conversation. I’ve never said that Lauri didn’t get a major jump statistically this year. That’s exactly what he did. If he had done this in his 3rd season he’d have also gotten a max contract extension. Like I said before, that’s par for the course in the NBA. Teams frankly don’t have much of a choice on those ‘decisions’ when it comes to all stars on their rookie deals.

The Cavs will likely hand Mobley an identical contract next summer.

Kyrie Irving is not an MVP level player. He’s incapable of being the best player on a title contender. He’s proven this time and again. I’m not sure why you’re repeatedly dwelling on how Garland compared to Irving.

You said that if Lauri Markennen puts up 25 points per game next year then the Cavs essentially gave up prime Dirk Nowitzki, and now you’re doubling down on that despite knowing how stupid it sounds.

Tell me how many players scored 25 points per game in 2006 and tell me how many did in 2023. Then tell me how many winning seasons each was a part of through 6 seasons. Once you’ve done so, I’d like to hear how the two truly compare.

 

[gambler]

Why are you so fixated on Garland and Irving as a comparison? In your mind, is Irving a comparable player to Dirk Nowitzki.

This whole back and forth started specifically because I laugh at the notion that Lauri Markennen is even in that level of conversation. I’ve never said that Lauri didn’t get a major jump statistically this year. That’s exactly what he did. If he had done this in his 3rd season he’d have also gotten a max contract extension. Like I said before, that’s par for the course in the NBA. Teams frankly don’t have much of a choice on those ‘decisions’ when it comes to all stars on their rookie deals.

The Cavs will likely hand Mobley an identical contract next summer.

Kyrie Irving is not an MVP level player. He’s incapable of being the best player on a title contender. He’s proven this time and again. I’m not sure why you’re repeatedly dwelling on how Garland compared to Irving.

You said that if Lauri Markennen puts up 25 points per game next year then the Cavs essentially gave up prime Dirk Nowitzki, and now you’re doubling down on that despite knowing how stupid it sounds.

Tell me how many players scored 25 points per game in 2006 and tell me how many did in 2023. Then tell me how many winning seasons each was a part of through 6 seasons. Once you’ve done so, I’d like to hear how the two truly compare.

essentially gave up?

big difference between the words essentially and arguably

markennan put up mvp dirk numbers last year. if he can do it again next year after teams have an entire off season to break down the tape then the cavaliers have arguably traded prime dirk nowitki along with three first round picks, first round pick agbaji and the rights to colin sexton(first round pick) for donovan mitchell


if mark puts up two consecutive years of 25/9 on 50/40/87 splits...you dont think that there are going to be arguments being made comparing lauri to prime dirk who put up 23/9 on 48/36/88 splits one year after his mvp season?

even if the jazz dont make the playoffs?

ok....

and who did prime dirk have running the floor with him and who does mark currently have?