2024 Buckeyes Football

AZ_ said:

Can someone explain to me the infatuation with amateurism and the need to not be a pro league in name only?

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If it becomes a pro league or a minor league for the NFL, I wonder if the limits to eligibility to play goes away. I think that's the best part of college sports, the time limit makes it a dynamic situation of bring in new players and graduating players.

I think if it becomes the minor leagues, there will be a lot of middling players who are good in college but not good enough to be a pro that will stick around to get paid and play.

The other thing that I really liked about college football was the constant evolution of the game that seem to be ahead of the NFL. That seems to be over and the NFL seems to be a more evolving game than college is now. I don't blame NIL for that because it seems to happen before that. I think the NFL became more open to the offensive minds that were pushing the thinking of football offenses and have taken that talent pool into their ranks.

Amherstcavsfan said:

Then make amateur football amateur football and develop a real minor leagues of Football for young players to play and get paid. I don't think the thing to do here is to get rid of the money.

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There is absolutely nothing currently preventing any enterprising individuals/businesses from starting their own independent minor league and attracting players via higher compensation than colleges are willing to pay.

Although you have to question why that never happened during the last 80 or so years.

Amherstcavsfan said:

Those players earn this money, and most colleges are flat ass broke without the money a football team drives into the university.

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I don't believe this is correct. I believe there are fewer than a dozen college athletic departments that are in the black. The vast majority of athletic departments are a drain on university finances, not a source of net revenue. The most that can be said is that revenue-producing sports like football help offset in part the costs of other athletic programs.

Obviously, if you start paying those players, that just drives athletic departments as whole further into the red, and requiring even more subsidization by the schools themselves.

AZ_ said:

Generic minor league football is what Power 5 college football has been for decades, is the problem that we're just not allowed to call it that?

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I personally have not viewed Power 5 football as "generic minor league." Though I would agree it appear to be moving in that direction rapidly.

AZ_ said:

What rubicon is being crossed by simply admitting that is the status quo right now, regardless of whether or not players have their economic freedom wholly restricted by a body (the NCAA) which profits from their labor?

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Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that any player movement should be restricted. I'm simply saying that it reduces my level of interest personally. Obviously, you and others feel differently. It isn't and never has been a bright-line "Rubicon" issue for me as a fan. It's a matter of degrees. In essence, how close is the association between the team, it's players, and the school/state itself?

It used to be that players on a given team were overwhelmingly local/state-based kids. So when you were cheering for, say, Ohio State, you were cheering largely for Ohio kids. That has eroded over time as out of state recruiting has become ubiquitous, which to some extent has and does reduce my feeling of connection to the team in comparison to what it was 40 years ago.

I'd feel differently if I were an alumni, or if my kids attended the school, but that's not the case.

Anyway, player free agency further removes the association between the players and the school/state, so that even recruited out of state players are no longer "adopted sons", but rather just temporary hired guns who may scoot to another school from year to year. For me personally, that reduces my interest in watching because I don't care to watch minor leagues. Just as I'd rather watch the my local high school v. an AAU team in basketball. I just have no reason to care about AAU ball.

AZ_ said:

Transfers are common and its not your purview to restrict who can go where and for what reason.

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I'm not advocating restricting anyone. I'm just saying it reduces my interest in watching and rooting for a particular school, or even the sport in general. And the only reason I bring that up at all is because you asked the question of why some people care about player free agency. It's akin to why I may watch the Olympics but couldn't care less about professional track and field. Olympians aren't getting paid to play in the Olympics - it's simply representing the country.

AZ_ said:

In September, the University of Michigan received a $30 million grant for chemistry from the National Science Foundation to bring nature’s efficiency and flexibility to advanced materials and additive manufacturing (chemistry). This is kind of like someone saying their interest in chemistry is diminished because the university has become a minor league for government.

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No, it isn't. The question is to which aspect of the university do private donors care to donate their own personal funds. And ridiculing people because they choose not to donate to individual professional athletes seems extraordinarily odd to me. Especially when it isn't just about enabling students to participate in athletics, but rather how many hundreds of thousands or millions they should be paid by donors to attract the best players who likely have NFL futures. It's almost literally saying people are expected to just hand their own money directly to a particular college athlete before they head to the NFL.

I suppose if they're a huge fan and want their team to get all the best players, and they have the disposable income, then sure. But if not...why should they pony up that money?

AZ_ said:

People by and large want to throw massive sums into athletics at these schools, the problem is the ivory-tower elites don't want to share that wealth with the players.

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Are you saying that it is the "ivory-towered elites" who currently pour money into college athletics? Because I don't think that's true at all, and it doesn't explain why the highest tier schools academically tend not to be the most successful in terms of football and basketball. You don't see Ivy League alumni and supporters throwing tens of millions into NIL to buy players. And I suspect that's the issue at Michigan as well. The wealthiest alumni aren't interested in buying the best players.

The Human Q-Tip said:

I personally have not viewed Power 5 football as "generic minor league." Though I would agree it appear to be moving in that direction rapidly.

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How isn't it that already, is my question.

Massive corporate sponsorship, end-to-end across all elements of the sport.

Staff and administrative personnel moving between college and pro roles for the last few decades.

Immense revenue growth and the emergence of television and streaming rights deals, conference agreements pouring billions into the pockets of universities.


But suddenly, upon potentially sharing that revenue with players makes shifts the needle that much to where the sport has become a minor league?

Most minor leaguers don't make the big leagues, either.

The Human Q-Tip said:

It used to be that players on a given team were overwhelmingly local/state-based kids. So when you were cheering for, say, Ohio State, you were cheering largely for Ohio kids. That has eroded over time as out of state recruiting has become ubiquitous, which to some extent has and does reduce my feeling of connection to the team in comparison to what it was 40 years ago.

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This happened without any revenue being directed towards players.

This is a function of football's national popularity and the growth of the game.

What you're experiencing is no different than many people as they age and have less mental bandwidth to devote to sports in general.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Anyway, player free agency further removes the association between the players and the school/state, so that even recruited out of state players are no longer "adopted sons", but rather just temporary hired guns who may scoot to another school from year to year. For me personally, that reduces my interest in watching because I don't care to watch minor leagues. Just as I'd rather watch the my local high school v. an AAU team in basketball. I just have no reason to care about AAU ball.

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So ignoring all the other things which have turned college football into a professional league, is it truly players earning money that makes you believe this?

I truly do not understand what other people earning money and being "hired" does to negate feelings of attachment to the university.

The notion that players are "adopted sons" is nonsensical and seems rooted in control and protectionism. Players have never been adopted by these schools, they were recruited as hired guns too, but without any economic freedom.

Will Howard and Caleb Downs are firmly going to STAN for Ohio State because they're a part of this team, just as Justin Fields did as a transfer from Georgia.

The issue appears to be fans who simply want to turn their relationship with the school into more than it is or can be.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Are you saying that it is the "ivory-towered elites" who currently pour money into college athletics? Because I don't think that's true at all, and it doesn't explain why the highest tier schools academically tend not to be the most successful academically. You don't see Ivy League alumni and supporters throwing tens of millions into NIL to buy players. And I suspect that's the issue at Michigan as well. The wealthiest alumni aren't interested in buying the best players.

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You see oil magnates pouring money into Texas A&M (a tier 1 research institution).

Ohio State (another research institution) has their NIL funded in part by its billionaire network of donors like the Schottenstein family.

Michigan isn't funding NIL properly because their infrastructure to do so is not something the university has prioritized, which is a miss. They're previous coach (who has since left given the pending, egregious violations) openly advocated for revenue sharing for players.


You don't see Ivy League alumni and supporters pouring money to buy NIL players because they cannot offer scholarships for athletics, not because there isn't money or infrastructure to set them up with NIL deals to maximize their value.

SCOTUS straight up telling the NCAA that their model would be illegal anywhere else in America should be a pretty big sign that players earning revenue should not affect your ability to cheer for a university.

AZ_ said:

The athletes affiliation with a particular college or university is a constant, and does not change.

Generic minor league football is what Power 5 college football has been for decades, is the problem that we're just not allowed to call it that?

What rubicon is being crossed by simply admitting that is the status quo right now, regardless of whether or not players have their economic freedom wholly restricted by a body (the NCAA) which profits from their labor?



This is narrative vs. real life. The B1G is similarly a sports factory, and all schools still prioritize academics.

No, academics is not "torched" by the ability to transfer.

Agnostic of football, 23% of students with no sports affiliation transfer schools before the end of their first four years.

Transfers are common and its not your purview to restrict who can go where and for what reason.




That's certainly a choice, but I'm still left wondering what the trigger is for people to have their interest diminished in the sport beyond athletes earning money?

Perhaps the premise that all athletes have an emotional connection and attachment to the school they play for?

Fans feel slighted that athletes don't have the same fandom for "tradition" and the university which fans feel?


Either way, college football is more popular now than it has ever been before.






In September, the University of Michigan received a $30 million grant for chemistry from the National Science Foundation to bring nature’s efficiency and flexibility to advanced materials and additive manufacturing (chemistry).

This is kind of like someone saying their interest in chemistry is diminished because the university has become a minor league for government.


Athletics is by far the most popular extra curricular of Power 5 schools and has historically been the biggest driver of investment and donations. So much so that most schools have faced the decades long question of how to match the enthusiasm for athletics donations to other parts of the university:

How to spread donor support for athletics to other areas of campus

We must consider how to broaden and bolster engagement so that what we offer in our classrooms is as attractive to donors as our athletics.

universitybusiness.com

People by and large want to throw massive sums into athletics at these schools, the problem is the ivory-tower elites don't want to share that wealth with the players.

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I was going to say in response to Q-Tip… seemed like he was missing the massive elephant in the room that the players are making hilarious amounts of money for the university and were not getting a piece of that pie in return, thus why it’s irksome that the so called “ivory tower elites” dont want to put the money into NIL.

But you beat me to it and said it in a much more eloquent fashion I suppose.

Should we or do we have a thread for these types of shenanigans, by the way? Some of us just care about football, to be honest. not trying to backseat mod, just wondering if this discourse would be better suited elsewhere.

Chris said:

I was going to say in response to Q-Tip… seemed like he was missing the massive elephant in the room that the players are making hilarious amounts of money for the university and were not getting a piece of that pie in return, thus why it’s irksome that the so called “ivory tower elites” dont want to put the money into NIL.

But you beat me to it and said it in a much more eloquent fashion I suppose.

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Very fair point. And there already is a thread on this, so I deleted my response in this thread and put it here:

As far as the dollars are concerned, I'd like to point out that the cost of a college education has undergone spectacular inflation in my lifetime; far outstripping any commodity that you can name. Maybe healthcare?

These "nonprofit" institutions are phenomenally greedy for money. Underscored for emphasis.

Most of the profit is going to an administrative class who never existed before 15 years ago, too. It’s gotten a lot worse in the last thirteen years since that graph was made.

Onto Chip Kelly watch...

Might have to start watching Ohio state again

Chip seems like a perfect fit to me. He specializes in the run game and that's where we've been our weakest offensively the last few years. I feel like he will be able to get the most out of Henderson & Judkins (not to mention Howard) which bodes incredibly well for us.