Browns stadium thread: To dome or not to dome

Smooth said:

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A dome/village-like development is 100% better downtown than in any suburb. Regardless of how people feel about getting to the stadium. The best spot to have the stadium is downtown. The easiest spot to have the stadium for access and transportation is downtown.

That spot where the post office sits is downtown and development around that area puts the new stadium walking distance from Progressive Field and Rocket Mortgage.

A dome-village in Brook Park isn't going to attract people as consistently as a downtown dome-village.

I know the land and space at Brook Park excites people but that is absolutely one of the worst spots to but a dome-village. I can think of 5 other suburbs that would make more sense.

My guess is that with the lease being up in 2028, the ultimate end goal for both sides is to have a dome-village downtown. There is space to do it. There's time to build it. The Haslams expressing how much they are willing to front for a dome-village in Brook Park is probably what's going to push the conclusion of a dome-village downtown forward.

I think I heard that Haslams are putting up 75% which is a lot even though it's not 100% but you're never going to get a 100% privately funded dome-village stadium downtown in a city like Cleveland. 75% seems more than doable.

BMAN said:

That’s the thing, Cleveland is smaller and will just further cannibalize existing entertainment districts in the city and area.

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Honestly I think the downtown entertainment district can only grow so much and turns off an older more suburban crowd. I get the 20 something and 30 something are the ones that go out the most, but having a different major entertainment district in is not a bad thing, it still only 2 that i know, not that I know cleveland that well any more.

Here in Phoenix there are like 6 or 7 major entertainment areas depending on what you call entertainment, and yes we are much more populated and get many more visitors, i still think cleveland can support and enjoy 2 or 3.

Jimmy is leaning heavily on the Cowboys dome village model. If you have never seen it, people can buy luxury condos with a view of the practice facilities. There's also boutique shopping on premise. Money is generated from the condos and retail, not just corporate loge and boxes for GameDay.

No matter what, this is the path to an expensive dome. I really do believe that this complex will bring business to Northeast Ohio, not just moving existing revenue from one area to the next. So many development plans are just vulturing local entertainment dollars from whatever used to be trendy.

The key has always been to attract investment outside of tax revenue. The Browns need corporate investment and private investment from potential new stakeholders. Public tax dollars do not belong in the pockets of sports ownership without an investment coming back to the people.

FrontPageNews said:

I still think they should just blow up the current stadium then play in canton for a year or two and build a dome in its current spot.

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Haslam has a few relatives in the Air Force - I don’t think it’s unreasonable to just bomb the stadium to lessen demolishing prices. Given advances in military technology I feel like it poses hardly any threat to civilian life.

Idk somethin to think about

FrontPageNews said:

I still think they should just blow up the current stadium then play in canton for a year or two and build a dome in its current spot.

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The stadium in Canton is too small to host regular season NFL games

Randolphkeys said:

Jimmy is leaning heavily on the Cowboys dome village model. If you have never seen it, people can buy luxury condos with a view of the practice facilities. There's also boutique shopping on premise. Money is generated from the condos and retail, not just corporate loge and boxes for GameDay.

No matter what, this is the path to an expensive dome. I really do believe that this complex will bring business to Northeast Ohio, not just moving existing revenue from one area to the next. So many development plans are just vulturing local entertainment dollars from whatever used to be trendy.

The key has always been to attract investment outside of tax revenue. The Browns need corporate investment and private investment from potential new stakeholders. Public tax dollars do not belong in the pockets of sports ownership without an investment coming back to the people.

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There is still plenty of land that can be used for that surrounding the current stadium. Shit, there is plenty of open land in the city itself.

Lee said:

Honestly I think the downtown entertainment district can only grow so much and turns off an older more suburban crowd. I get the 20 something and 30 something are the ones that go out the most, but having a different major entertainment district in is not a bad thing, it still only 2 that i know, not that I know cleveland that well any more.

Here in Phoenix there are like 6 or 7 major entertainment areas depending on what you call entertainment, and yes we are much more populated and get many more visitors, i still think cleveland can support and enjoy 2 or 3.

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There are more than 2 entertainment districts in the city. Not to mention the retail, businesses, and housing this type of development would attract and take away from the core.

This seems like a stupid situation. If the city wants the stadium to stay downtown they should identify some property that would work for the dome village and make it available. The city insisting that the stadium remain on lakefront property that won't support a dome is the problem here. You would think it could be solved.

Los216 said:

A dome/village-like development is 100% better downtown than in any suburb. Regardless of how people feel about getting to the stadium. The best spot to have the stadium is downtown. The easiest spot to have the stadium for access and transportation is downtown.

That spot where the post office sits is downtown and development around that area puts the new stadium walking distance from Progressive Field and Rocket Mortgage.

A dome-village in Brook Park isn't going to attract people as consistently as a downtown dome-village.

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We're talking about the post office right next to the entrance to Tower City? You really think an NFL stadium could fit there? I dunno about that...

BMAN said:

That’s the thing, Cleveland is smaller and will just further cannibalize existing entertainment districts in the city and area.

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There are plenty of people who wont make the trip to downtown cleveland that will go to Brookpark to go out. It will revamp the entire area and will feel safer to suburbanites too.

It will add, but yes it will partially cannibalize, but not nearly as much as you think.

And honestly its either go to a dome stadium in Brookpark or loose the team all together, downtown cant support a dome, and Physically or practically. You dont think Haslam will move the team if blocked from building in Brookpark? Did we learn nothing from Model. Sure it sucks for those that love a downtown football team, but I remember the 90's very well, that sucked so much more.

eChameleon said:

We're talking about the post office right next to the entrance to Tower City? You really think an NFL stadium could fit there? I dunno about that...

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No. There's an even bigger post office on the other side of the freeway on Orange Ave. It's directly south of Progressive Field.

Lee said:

There are plenty of people who wont make the trip to downtown cleveland that will go to Brookpark to go out.

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This just isn't true at all right now.

Lee said:

You dont think Haslam will move the team if blocked from building in Brookpark? Did we learn nothing from Model.

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NFL, Browns, and City have an agreement not to move the team that was baked into the return in 1999 and the sale to the Haslams.

Los216 said:

Brook Park, Middleburg Heights, Brooklyn, Lakewood, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Warrensville Heights, Cuyahoga Heights, East Cleveland, Euclid, and Fairview Park should all be integrated into the City of Cleveland. They can keep their names and be classified the same way as areas like Tremont, Mt Pleasant, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, and Collinwood.

The Mayor's of those cities could form a larger City Council.

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Realistically the time to do this would have been around WWII.

I could see East Cleveland (currently listed in state of fiscal emergency by the state of Ohio Auditor's office) and Garfield Heights (previously in fiscal emergency) benefitting from being incorporated into Cleveland proper.

Some other cities like Euclid could have some complications. Euclid water reclamation department handles treatment for Euclid, Richmond Heights, Wickliffe, Willoughby Hills, and Willowick. That should be easier than other issues.

Ongoing pension and debt obligations for the individual municipalities would have to be addressed, as well as public union seniority issues and current contracts. Cities with a more stable economic structure would pay more to balance Cleveland proper's lower bond rating.

Are all inner ring suburbs being annexed? Does Lakewood get swallowed, but not Shaker?

I was involved in this to a smaller scale as I was living in an incorporated part of a county in Florida between two towns. The town adjacent to the south wanted to annex the streets in the unincorporated strip of land. Property and service taxes would have gone up, as well as utilities. Private insurers said they couldn't guarantee property/vehicle insurance rates wouldn't go up. Less than 10% of residents voted for the annex.