How about we just dump this kid and move on with the other guys we have? There is a reason he was still available when we picked him and teams picking ahead of us passed. Our management doesn't seem too anxious to get him involved with the rest of the team.
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC
- Thread starter Stark
- Start date
Cavatt
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 29,273
- Reaction score
- 38,469
- Points
- 148
I have a hard time with this. When I was in school. I had a friend who was in trouble a lot and the teachers tried to keep me from being friends with him because he was a "bad influence". I said to them, "Why can't I be a good influence on him?" He could barely read, and I got him into reading, he did better in school because he could suddenly write, and he eventually joined the navy and straightened out his life, and lives like a normal person.
He had some bad stuff go on during an unprecedented time, after being on his own for the first time at 20 years old. If I could think of a way to help him it would be to put him with some good character guys on a team where he is doing something he loves? Would you expect him to corrupt Collin and Okoro, or do you think their Love of the game and hard work would rub off on him? If this was the Wizards with Arenas I would think differently, but most of the guys on the team come from strong families and are character guys.
I have no way of knowing if someone like KPJ is irrevocable. The Cavs know more than me. If he is a threat to others or his own safety they need to trod really carefully and maybe cut ties. If he is a good kid that needs help, I don't want them to kick him to the curb.
The gun charge would be nothing if he hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel, which does show bad judgement, but that isn't a worrying criminal thing to me. The altercation with police and security guards is troubling to me as are his gang ties. He could have had legit beef with security guards for all we know, but his response was not good.
I like the culture the Cavs are building and I understand the impulse to cut ties to anything that could derail it, but an organization actually caring about their players and helping them through something like this could be a positive for morale and could have a cultural impact on the team. We might ask ourselves if the team and the good set of guys there on the team might be a positive influence on Porter.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 34,209
- Reaction score
- 64,810
- Points
- 148
You may be right -- that may be the best way to help him. Of course, giving a high-paying NBA job to a lot of other aspiring young players may be the best way to help them as well. But a professional sports team is not a social services organization that exists for the sole purpose of helping others, and shouldn't hand out roster spots and paychecks based on who it would help the most.
This should be purely a basketball decision, because rosters are a zero sum game. Every guy cut lose means some other guy is getting a chance, and every guy you keep means some other guy isn't getting a chance. So ultimately, the only real basis on which to make a decision is who helps the team the most.
Nphan
Gold Star Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2013
- Messages
- 3,181
- Reaction score
- 3,368
- Points
- 113
IMO depends what you mean by dump. Did you mean trade him? If so, wouldn't mind getting into that trade deal with the Rockets or Utah. We have 2 young guys ( Garland, Porter ) 2 talented vets ( Drummond, Love), the Bucks 1st rounder and a some 2nd rounders. If you mean out right release him - i would ask why? The kid does not have a history of violence or abuse. Hes more of a young rich hothead. But i would trade him because we're trying to build a culture with hard working focused on basketball guys like Sexton and Okoro and we don't have time for all this BS but cant let talent go for free. Not a good business move.
Of course you try to get something for him. If you can't, however, should we just let him go? I think the kid has a ton of talent, but he does dominate the ball. I'm not sure we need that on the "share the ball" team they are trying to build... especially if he's going to be a distraction in other ways.
JJ_PR
Sixth Man
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2014
- Messages
- 1,206
- Reaction score
- 1,191
- Points
- 113
This happens in every draft. Just because other teams passed on him doesn't mean he was a bad pick. He's a star in the making. No way you get rid of him!
Cavatt
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 29,273
- Reaction score
- 38,469
- Points
- 148
I think it is a basketball decision tho. I don't think you can replace his talent with someone who is a free agent or gleague guy right now. He has a lot of talent. I wouldn't for a second think about keeping Maker over KPJ
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2005
- Messages
- 8,730
- Reaction score
- 7,141
- Points
- 113
People are not static. they evolve , learn and change.. pretty much every day.. some people learn to make good decisions when they are 10, some never learn...Porter was drafted late because he has risk.. The Cavs took a flier on him because he has the talent. What we are doing now is risk management.. He gets help to figure it out, but it's a leading a horse to water scenario..
The idea of buddying him up with Okoro is not likely to succeed as they are two pretty different people. What he needs is someone who has been in his shoes, but figured it out..
How well he reacts to help will drive what we get for him.
The idea of buddying him up with Okoro is not likely to succeed as they are two pretty different people. What he needs is someone who has been in his shoes, but figured it out..
How well he reacts to help will drive what we get for him.
I'mWithDan
"Straight Cash Homie"
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 11,965
- Reaction score
- 24,359
- Points
- 135
My big hang up with KPJ is not his talent, it is how everything else seems to conflict with what our publicly stated mission as a team / franchise is.
We value mature, high character guys with work ethic. Sexton, Garland, Okoro, Love. I have trouble squaring how KPJ fits in here relative to his prior baggage (for better or worse) and what we have seen from him over the off-season.
We don’t have a ton invested (a late first) so while not advocating for casting him aside, I am truly intrigued as to why it hasn’t happened.
Some people argue the “didn’t break a law” angle but the concern is more the pattern of behavior. If that doesn’t change, the law thing tends to eventually catch up with you.
We value mature, high character guys with work ethic. Sexton, Garland, Okoro, Love. I have trouble squaring how KPJ fits in here relative to his prior baggage (for better or worse) and what we have seen from him over the off-season.
We don’t have a ton invested (a late first) so while not advocating for casting him aside, I am truly intrigued as to why it hasn’t happened.
Some people argue the “didn’t break a law” angle but the concern is more the pattern of behavior. If that doesn’t change, the law thing tends to eventually catch up with you.
Cavatt
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 29,273
- Reaction score
- 38,469
- Points
- 148
Yeah my suggestion on Okoro wasn't meant to be specifically him. There is study that had rats in a cage with access to cocaine and the rat will do cocaine until it dies. Conclusion: Cocaine is so addictive it will kill you. Same study, but instead of the cage, the rat has access to things rats love. Plants, toys, strings, bits of of stuff to play with and build nests. The rat barely touches the cocaine and spends his time doing normal rat things.
Environment is so so important. I just don't know many examples of people who completely eschew good things for bad when they are in an actual good environment. That doesn't just mean "rich stuff" either, it means mental environment too. Your family can have everything while being sick people or neglectful emotionally and you can suffer the same fate as someone who grows up poor and neglected and vice versa.
Nphan
Gold Star Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2013
- Messages
- 3,181
- Reaction score
- 3,368
- Points
- 113
No way we let him go. He's still a young dude and can learn and grow. He hasn't been much problem during the season.
Muffinalt
NBA Starter
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2013
- Messages
- 2,549
- Reaction score
- 4,991
- Points
- 113
Great series of posts on the topic! Environment and people surrounding you are the biggest factor in someone's development. A negative env is what shaped KPJ to have these kind of demons - why can't a positive environment do the same in the other direction. Not to mention your early 20s, those are still years where you change a lot and shape the kind of adult you are to become.
Surrounding him with a positive environment seemed to do well last year until the off-season. Hopefully it can reinforce itself again after an off-season of turmiol and become his new norm. Id give him a full year and see how he does before making these kind of decisions.
sailfish
The 52 year drought is over!
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2006
- Messages
- 6,939
- Reaction score
- 5,957
- Points
- 113
Agreed. He’s going and has a really tough upbringing. Everyone knew he was likely to bring a few headaches and would require some patience. This should be no
Surprise
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2005
- Messages
- 8,730
- Reaction score
- 7,141
- Points
- 113
Sugar is so addictive you will eat it till you die...
You are right about environment... But people succeed who were in the same environment KPJ came from. He needs to let go of negative culture. It's designed to enslave him.. but who delivers that message.. he needs to hear it from someone he relates to.. someone he trusts... That's the tallest order.. I don't know we have that guy..