2020 Around the MLB Thread

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

sportscoach

Snarly's Gaming Rival!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
5,829
Reaction score
2,116
Points
113
Well onto some actual baseball news, neither the Marlins nor the Cardinals had any new cases of Covid, so that is a good sign. I am not exactly sure who is playing for the Marlins anymore since they just remade the roster, but hopefully this is the last case like this and guys take staying to the bubble a little more seriously.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,590
Points
113
Found this in The Athletic:

"It’s not exactly surprising that Red Sox designated hitter J.D. Martinez is struggling with the temporary ban on players using communal video terminals to review at-bats or pitches during games. Martinez, renowned for making adjustments through in-game video study, told reporters last Friday, “That’s a big part of my routine … a big part of who I am.”

Without the visual aid, he is batting .244 with a .720 OPS and no home runs in his first 50 plate appearances.

“He’s very frustrated, not being able to go back and look at video,” Red Sox manager Ron Roenicke told the Fox broadcasters on Saturday. “When you’re DHing, you have to spend your time doing something. You can’t just sit on the bench and dwell. He’s in the cage a lot, but he usually looks at video. He’s one of the few players who can break down anyone’s swing. For him not to have that – to not be able to look at what he’s doing wrong and correct it – it’s affecting him.”

The restrictions for 2020 are a safety measure so players do not gather in close quarters around the same video station. Players were given iPads, but those can be loaded with video only before and after games, not during them. MLB hopes to set up a system as quickly as possible where players can access video on those iPads during games, but with the signs edited out to prevent illegal sign-stealing."

Just thought it was an interesting development this season.
 

bob2the2nd

member 32
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
17,461
Reaction score
13,619
Points
123
Found this in The Athletic:

"It’s not exactly surprising that Red Sox designated hitter J.D. Martinez is struggling with the temporary ban on players using communal video terminals to review at-bats or pitches during games. Martinez, renowned for making adjustments through in-game video study, told reporters last Friday, “That’s a big part of my routine … a big part of who I am.”

Without the visual aid, he is batting .244 with a .720 OPS and no home runs in his first 50 plate appearances.

“He’s very frustrated, not being able to go back and look at video,” Red Sox manager Ron Roenicke told the Fox broadcasters on Saturday. “When you’re DHing, you have to spend your time doing something. You can’t just sit on the bench and dwell. He’s in the cage a lot, but he usually looks at video. He’s one of the few players who can break down anyone’s swing. For him not to have that – to not be able to look at what he’s doing wrong and correct it – it’s affecting him.”

The restrictions for 2020 are a safety measure so players do not gather in close quarters around the same video station. Players were given iPads, but those can be loaded with video only before and after games, not during them. MLB hopes to set up a system as quickly as possible where players can access video on those iPads during games, but with the signs edited out to prevent illegal sign-stealing."

Just thought it was an interesting development this season.
So this is really interesting. Ill be honest I wasnt even trackign that hitters could go back and watch video of themselves bat during the game. Not sure how i feel about it as a whole.

I do feel like being able to watch video should not be the difference between replacement player level and all star/silver slugger.
 

macbdog

Resident Luddite
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
10,246
Reaction score
6,238
Points
113
So this is really interesting. Ill be honest I wasnt even trackign that hitters could go back and watch video of themselves bat during the game. Not sure how i feel about it as a whole.

I do feel like being able to watch video should not be the difference between replacement player level and all star/silver slugger.
Something tells me JD was looking at more than just his swing in those replays...
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,590
Points
113
It gives the DH an advantage because he can watch the replay of his at-bat while his teammates are in the field. I suppose they could do the same thing during innings when they are not due to hit, though. How long can it take to watch four or five pitches?
 

jup

In the Rotation
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
502
Points
93
So this is really interesting. Ill be honest I wasnt even trackign that hitters could go back and watch video of themselves bat during the game. Not sure how i feel about it as a whole.

I do feel like being able to watch video should not be the difference between replacement player level and all star/silver slugger.
Hitters have been doing this for years. After their at bat they go directly to the video room to see how the pitcher is working them. Lots of pitchers do the same. Watch video between innings of how the hitters are approaching them.
 

jup

In the Rotation
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
502
Points
93
It gives the DH an advantage because he can watch the replay of his at-bat while his teammates are in the field. I suppose they could do the same thing during innings when they are not due to hit, though. How long can it take to watch four or five pitches?
There are things you can see in slow motion that you can't detect at game speed.

Especially for pitchers. Certain things about a swing on a particular pitch, or body movement that tells you that the hitter was thinking about swinging. Stuff like that, that you can't be aware of when you are concentrating on executing the pitch in the game. And these guys know EXACTLY what they are looking for, only takes a couple seconds for them to see what they want.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,590
Points
113
There are things you can see in slow motion that you can't detect at game speed.

Especially for pitchers. Certain things about a swing on a particular pitch, or body movement that tells you that the hitter was thinking about swinging. Stuff like that, that you can't be aware of when you are concentrating on executing the pitch in the game. And these guys know EXACTLY what they are looking for, only takes a couple seconds for them to see what they want.
OK, but pitchers can't be sure that the batter will take the same approach next time up, right? IOW, the pitcher can look at the last at-bat and say, "He was sitting on a breaking ball away the entire at-bat", but that doesn't mean the hitter won't be sitting on a high fastball next time up, right?
 

jup

In the Rotation
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
502
Points
93
OK, but pitchers can't be sure that the batter will take the same approach next time up, right? IOW, the pitcher can look at the last at-bat and say, "He was sitting on a breaking ball away the entire at-bat", but that doesn't mean the hitter won't be sitting on a high fastball next time up, right?
Not sure it really works like that.

Hitter have to react to what they see, they don't do it consciously, it is kind of an auto pilot thing, because you have less than a second to make a decision. Take your keys, drop them from shoulders height, and the time it takes for them to hit the ground is about the length of time a hitter has to decide to swing or not. So the movement and stuff I am referring to is based on the automatic reaction the hitter has to the pitch coming in and how he perceived the pitch.

No pitcher can tell what a hitter is sitting on exactly, unless what they hit is so far out of the realm of normality that it defies logic any other way. So a hitter tomahawks a FB up at the bill of his hat for a home run. You can say he was undoubtedly going to swing at that pitch no matter what and he was probably sitting FB. Because it is such an unusual result. If he is way late on a FB, you can say he was thinking off speed because the ball was in the catchers glove when his bat went through the zone. So you might differentiate in a given count, the scouting reports must tell him to expect an off speed pitch. But other than that, what they look for is small body movements and weight shifts that tell them the hitter saw that pitch as a strike for at least a little while. And that tells them what he could be susceptible to in the next at bat .
 
  • Like
Reactions: LL3
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,590
Points
113
Hey jup, this is beside the point but I'm starting to think it makes no sense for a hitter to swing at a pitch he perceives as being at the bottom of the strike zone. Most of those end up being below the knees and often in the dirt. Every pitcher throws a pitch that comes in at knee level or slightly above and then drops. Occasionally you see a straight fastball at the knees but just from observation I'd say there are at least five change-ups or sliders that end up out of the zone for every strike at the knees. I'm so sick of seeing hitters swing and miss at pitches in the dirt. It's not just Lindor - Indians pitchers are inducing scads of batters to chase that stuff.

If I'm a hitter I ignore any pitches that I perceive to be low in the zone until I have two strikes on me (especially if my name is Lindor or Reyes). I think I would end up ahead in the count almost every time. What do you think?
 

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
13,347
Reaction score
17,184
Points
123
Hey jup, this is beside the point but I'm starting to think it makes no sense for a hitter to swing at a pitch he perceives as being at the bottom of the strike zone. Most of those end up being below the knees and often in the dirt. Every pitcher throws a pitch that comes in at knee level or slightly above and then drops. Occasionally you see a straight fastball at the knees but just from observation I'd say there are at least five change-ups or sliders that end up out of the zone for every strike at the knees. I'm so sick of seeing hitters swing and miss at pitches in the dirt. It's not just Lindor - Indians pitchers are inducing scads of batters to chase that stuff.

If I'm a hitter I ignore any pitches that I perceive to be low in the zone until I have two strikes on me (especially if my name is Lindor or Reyes). I think I would end up ahead in the count almost every time. What do you think?
Pitches in the bottom half of the zone are typically the ones that hitters do the most damage against. Frankie's chart is clearer on this than Franmil's, but you can still see that those are the pitches guys tee off on.

Either way, hitting is so tough as it is, you can't afford to ignore part of the strike zone. If you're waiting until you have two strikes on you, you're probably dead already.


Screen Shot 2020-08-07 at 10.36.51 AM.png

Screen Shot 2020-08-07 at 10.38.11 AM.png
 

jup

In the Rotation
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
502
Points
93
Hey jup, this is beside the point but I'm starting to think it makes no sense for a hitter to swing at a pitch he perceives as being at the bottom of the strike zone. Most of those end up being below the knees and often in the dirt. Every pitcher throws a pitch that comes in at knee level or slightly above and then drops. Occasionally you see a straight fastball at the knees but just from observation I'd say there are at least five change-ups or sliders that end up out of the zone for every strike at the knees. I'm so sick of seeing hitters swing and miss at pitches in the dirt. It's not just Lindor - Indians pitchers are inducing scads of batters to chase that stuff.

If I'm a hitter I ignore any pitches that I perceive to be low in the zone until I have two strikes on me (especially if my name is Lindor or Reyes). I think I would end up ahead in the count almost every time. What do you think?
For awhile the league was all about 2 seam FB's or sinkers. Throw everything at the bottom of the zone. So hitters got real good at whacking that stuff.

Pitchers (new wave ones) got smart and starting throwing up in the zone, for a couple reasons. One pragmatic, one scientific.

Pragmatic - they were tired of seeing balls go over the fence.

Scientific - all pitches move down because of gravity, and if you are going to tunnel, the pitches that move down the least, have to be at the top of the zone, so you can disguise all the rest which will end up lower.

One of the HUGE BATTLES Bauer had to fight coming into the league. He came throwing high FBs and hard CBs off of it. At that time, FBs up in the zone were an absolute NO NO. Now everyone does it and it is one of the main reasons strike outs are up so much.

So in the pitching thread I talked about tunneling, how pitchers use it and why it is such a hard technique for hitters to combat (because their eyes lie to them). Breaking balls in the dirt like Frankie loves to chase are the result of hitters being taught to layoff high heat, not to chase breaking balls and hunt FBs to hit. Leaves them susceptible to pitches that look like FBs (cutters and sliders), that they can't identify, that start in the lower 1/2 of the zone, but end up in the dirt. Hitters see FB and swing.

It has been what Biebs has been doing since he arrived. Not sure why you dislike it so much, live by the sword (on the pitching side) die by the sword (on the hitting side). Seems like everyone is OK with it when their guy is on the mound.
 

jup

In the Rotation
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
502
Points
93
Hey jup, this is beside the point but I'm starting to think it makes no sense for a hitter to swing at a pitch he perceives as being at the bottom of the strike zone. Most of those end up being below the knees and often in the dirt. Every pitcher throws a pitch that comes in at knee level or slightly above and then drops. Occasionally you see a straight fastball at the knees but just from observation I'd say there are at least five change-ups or sliders that end up out of the zone for every strike at the knees. I'm so sick of seeing hitters swing and miss at pitches in the dirt. It's not just Lindor - Indians pitchers are inducing scads of batters to chase that stuff.

If I'm a hitter I ignore any pitches that I perceive to be low in the zone until I have two strikes on me (especially if my name is Lindor or Reyes). I think I would end up ahead in the count almost every time. What do you think?
So I will take on another part of your post briefly.

Some teams do that, Maybe not low in the zone but inside and outside. Dodgers are among the best at it. Have that guy Van Scoyic (JD Martinez's resurrector) that really understands the stuff. They will just spit on any pitches that start on one side of the plate to RH hitters for some pitchers. It depends on the pitcher and his arsenal.

But trying to layoff anything low in the zone until two strikes isn't going to buy you a lot, because you still don't know what strike 3 will be. It is more important that you look at it from the number of balls perspective because that traps the pitchers choices more than strike 2.

As a hitter, facing a "new school" pitcher that comes with those deep arsenal and throws lots less FBs, you try to eliminate pitch types. Because it is the threat of a walk, or opportunity to get a K that drives pitch selection. The "old school" thought process was - you limit what you throw to hitters early so you have a trick up your sleeve for later or when you need it. It comes under the disguise of ESTABLISH THE FB. But that simply ain't new school. Because pitchers are now more worried about what tunnels they create, and how the speed of those pitches impacts hitters. That requires a mix of pitches. So now you see Civale come out and throw maybe 3 FBs



in the first 33 pitches.

So as a hitter, you try to narrow the pitch selection you might get, and getting to 2 strikes just opens a can of worms. Because it allows a pitcher to use "chase pitches". But getting to 3 balls, makes them have to throw strike pitches and allows you to eliminate CB's and maybe sliders (in many cases). So as a hitter, you have to determine what pitches a "new school" pitcher uses as strike pitches, hunt them early in counts, because that is what he will use to get to 2 strikes so he can finish you. In Civale's case, it is clearly his cutter. And if I am a hitter, I am swinging cutter speed and movement at whatever he throws up there long before I get to 2 strikes. But hitters aren't real bright and years of being indoctrinated into a single hitting philosophy (hunt FBs) leaves most of them without any decent game time strategy.

It would take a lot of explaining, maybe over in the pitching thread in bits and pieces, but that is the 30 thousand foot view, even if it leaves you with more questions than answers.
 
Last edited:

TyGuy

Make America a good boy again.
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
13,795
Reaction score
12,248
Points
123
You would have thought america would be very hungry for sports. Maybe people are waiting on the playoffs for NBA but I would have thought MLB opening night would have a much stronger showing.

Even MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow Beat NBA, MLB Opening Night Ratings

The bad news continues for the return of pro sports: The entire Fox News lineup – and even MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow – beat the NBA and MLB opening night broadcasts.

For an overview, Fox News was the big winner when it came to average number of viewers in the month of July.

Hannity, Fox News – 4.1M
Tucker Carlson, Fox News – 4M
Ingraham Angle, Fox News – 3.4M
Rachel Maddow, MSNBC – 3.3M
The Five, Fox News – 3.3M

On July 24th, when Major League Baseball resumed its season, many thought that the long-awaited return of the nation’s pastime would bring with it rich rewards for MLB’s broadcast partners.

That turned out to be true, in a sense, but MLB still got beaten decisively by cable news programming.

As Outkick explains, “July 24, MLB returned to large ratings. But its 3.4 million average fell short of Hannity (4.3M), Carlson (4M), and Maddow (3.6); all three drew close to normal viewership. (The Five, as non-head-to-head airing, too topped MLB with 3.6M viewers.)”

Getting their lunch stolen by The Five, has to be especially displeasing to MLB. Not because The Five isn’t a great show. Though, it airs at 5 PM EST, an especially challenging time slot with lots of local TV competition and likely viewers in transit from work to home.

Things did not improve for the sports leagues a week later when the NBA made its return, it only got worse.

“Last Thursday, the NBA’s highly-discussed return also didn’t bother primetime news,” Outkick reports. “The NBA’s restart — two games — opened to 2.75 million viewers. It lost to several cable news shows that aired directly against it: Tucker Carlson Tonight, 4 million; Hannity, 3.8 million; the Ingraham Angle; 3 million, Rachel Maddow Show, 3 million. (Earlier in the day, The Five, at 3.2 million, outperformed the NBA.)”


 
Last edited:
Top