2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't think the Cavs knew exactly what they were going to do with Lauri when they signed him. They just thought he was talented and knew we only had 3 decent big guys on the roster.

 

[CavsKermit]

Sure, but that's why the league has a soft cap. Your contracts are never going to add up to a clean 100% on a team that's trying to be competitive.

Ben said it himself at the time of the deal, that is the going rate for new contracts for players seen as key bench players. When you take a look around the league's free agents each summer, that line of thinking is accurate more often than not.

I like Ben. He has good internal sources. I tend to agree with most of what he says about fit, players, etc.

That said, I'm not sure that the Cavs have a good handle on what the actual market value is for players league wide, I think Ben's understanding of market value comes from the organization, or worse, that player's agent, and I tend to think that both overrate what some of our players would command on the open market. Drummond turned down a $20M per extension offer from the Cavs and is currently playing on a league minimum deal. TT asked for a max extension here, signed a two-year deal for the MLE with Boston, was traded after a single season, and is generally considered to have negative value - on an MLE deal.

There's no evidence to suggest that any other team was prepared to offer Lauri the contract he got with the Cavs and substantial evidence that his other offers were lower. The Bulls clearly didn't want to pay him that much, the Spurs likely didn't want to pay him that much (he'd be the highest paid player on their roster right now), and Portland didn't want to pay him that much, which is when the Cavs and Nance were brought into the discussion. But Lauri didn't have much time left before he was playing on the Q.O. when that deal was done.

I don't want to overstate it. Signing Lauri to that deal wasn't a fatal mistake. His contract isn't an albatross. It's even conceivable, although unlikely IMO, that he could even play up to that contract. But what I hope fans take away from this is that many a rebuild has been derailed by overpaying role players. Once you're already an over the cap team and your young guys are all extended, it's true cap space matters less. But you can't spend the same dollars twice and every dollar you spend now on multi-year deals is one less available to spend later when opportunities you're not presently aware of present themselves. Further, other teams either like your guys on their contracts when it comes to trading for them, or they don't.

 

[ryanf]

rosters aren't constructed in a vacuum. you have to consider fit and personnel improvement. JA is one example of fit and improvement. rubio is another. the cavs are projecting lauri to be a tall floor spacer that will get minutes and paid him accordingly. the team added talent and a player willing to play out of position without sacrificing too much cap space, isn't that a good deal?

 

[CavsKermit]

rosters aren't constructed in a vacuum. you have to consider fit and personnel improvement. JA is one example of fit and improvement. rubio is another. the cavs are projecting lauri to be a tall floor spacer that will get minutes and paid him accordingly. the team added talent and a player willing to play out of position without sacrificing too much cap space, isn't that a good deal?

Again, it depends on how you're defining too much cap space, and whether, if you want to go in another direction later, that contract makes it difficult. This all started because people were using Lauri's contract as a comp for Sexton and saying Sexton should be paid even more. My response is that guys should be paid what there market value is unless you can live with getting stuck with them.

 

[B Mac]

The Cavs saw two major holes that they wanted to address via trades or FA. A backup PG and more shooting. They nailed it in the Rubio trade. They then went out and got one of the better three points shooters that was available. The story isn’t over yet, but it’s definitely been up and down to start here for Mark. Do I think the trade/contract was a mistake, that’s TBD, but the thought process seemed right on target.

 

[Henry Tuttle]

I’ll give it more time (especially considering we don’t really have other options) but I can’t help but see Lauri as an above average bench guy. We’re one starting SF (and health) away from having a bench of:

Rondo
Sexton
Cedi
Lauri
Love

Not that those 5 are great together necessarily, but mix in JA or Mobley and that is great depth.

 

[bleedwineandgold03]

We barely lose to Memphis and battled the warriors and people wanna bitch lol bright lights in the future

 

[Lee]

Maybe I am in the minority, but I like Lauri. I think he still has a chance to get a lot better, but wish he was more consistent.

I like Lauri allot. He will play the role Love is playing now in the near future, we need to get a better SF, but Lauri is still very young and will continue to get better and more comfortable in our offense.

 

[Jscc]

I think everyone (including Lauri) will be better at their roles with an offseason to prepare for them. I don't think anyone expected us to roll out three seven footers and be successful or Sexton/Rubio going down and Garland having to essentially fill their production vacuum and handle the ball so much.

 

[chuck0609]

I like Lauri allot. He will play the role Love is playing now in the near future, we need to get a better SF, but Lauri is still very young and will continue to get better and more comfortable in our offense.

I like him. He chose to sign in CLE. Wants to be here.
Guys have to remember a couple hard points; FAs don’t want to come to CLE, and the Cavs always have to overpay a bit.
The fact Koby got Allen for 100/5 and Maark for his contract is pretty good work for this franchise.

 

[Dr. Claw]

I think everyone (including Lauri) will be better at their roles with an offseason to prepare for them. I don't think anyone expected us to roll out three seven footers and be successful or Sexton/Rubio going down and Garland having to essentially fill their production vacuum and handle the ball so much.

Right. Beyond the season-ending injury to Sexton I don't think anyone foresaw the impact Rubio would have on this team as the backup PG. The Knicks game was one thing, but all the little things he did gave him way more weight than expected. Not LeBron weight, but...."You need to figure out how the weather the storm when he's gone" weight.

I thought it was a great trade, as Ricky was solidified as a PG in the league. The Cavs needed someone better than Delly. They got someone better than that.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

From Kelsey Russo:

The Cavs didn’t protect the ball too well, as they turned it over 17 times, and the Kings scored 20 points off those turnovers. While Cleveland slightly out-rebounded Sacramento 48-43, they gave up 15 offensive rebounds, off of which Sacramento scored 16 second-chance points.

That's 36 of their 108 points, or exactly one-third, off turnovers and offensive rebounds. The main things the Cavs need to accomplish in the second half if they want to move up are reducing turnovers and better controlling the defensive glass.

The Cavs have played in 20 games this season that include clutch time — defined as the last five minutes of the game when a team is either leading or trailing by five points or fewer. They are 8-12 in games that fall in clutch time.

This is the third area that needs improvement - closing out games. The Sacramento game was a great example where the Cavs led by 10 points with 2:30 to go and failed to score another point. As a result the game came down to De'Aaron Fox taking a 15-foot jumper for the win. We're lucky he missed.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

From Kelsey Russo:

The Cavs didn’t protect the ball too well, as they turned it over 17 times, and the Kings scored 20 points off those turnovers. While Cleveland slightly out-rebounded Sacramento 48-43, they gave up 15 offensive rebounds, off of which Sacramento scored 16 second-chance points.

That's 36 of their 108 points, or exactly one-third, off turnovers and offensive rebounds. The main things the Cavs need to accomplish in the second half if they want to move up are reducing turnovers and better controlling the defensive glass.

The Cavs have played in 20 games this season that include clutch time — defined as the last five minutes of the game when a team is either leading or trailing by five points or fewer. They are 8-12 in games that fall in clutch time.

This is the third area that needs improvement - closing out games. The Sacramento game was a great example where the Cavs led by 10 points with 2:30 to go and failed to score another point. As a result the game came down to De'Aaron Fox taking a 15-foot jumper for the win. We're lucky he missed.

Combination of turnovers and a scoring droughts has cost them plenty this season. I've been a JB supporter but he also has a bad tendency to let it ride out too long before taking a timeout. Either way, Cavs players have simply missed wide open shots in these situations.

NBA clutch stats has the Cavs at 8-12 which is 23rd in the NBA compared to a team like the Wizards who have been strangely clutch in close games this season at 17-4 (2nd best in the league).

 

[Heat Check]

From Kelsey Russo:

The Cavs didn’t protect the ball too well, as they turned it over 17 times, and the Kings scored 20 points off those turnovers. While Cleveland slightly out-rebounded Sacramento 48-43, they gave up 15 offensive rebounds, off of which Sacramento scored 16 second-chance points.

That's 36 of their 108 points, or exactly one-third, off turnovers and offensive rebounds. The main things the Cavs need to accomplish in the second half if they want to move up are reducing turnovers and better controlling the defensive glass.

The Cavs have played in 20 games this season that include clutch time — defined as the last five minutes of the game when a team is either leading or trailing by five points or fewer. They are 8-12 in games that fall in clutch time.

This is the third area that needs improvement - closing out games. The Sacramento game was a great example where the Cavs led by 10 points with 2:30 to go and failed to score another point. As a result the game came down to De'Aaron Fox taking a 15-foot jumper for the win. We're lucky he missed.

The turnovers are driving me crazy. On the current regular roster, the biggest culprits by far are Garland and Rondo, who average 8 turnovers per 36 between them. Frankly, that's awful. Way too many unforced errors – sloppy passes, painting themselves into a corner, too slow to get rid of the ball.

I can understand Garland racking up some TO's as a result of trying to make plays, but Rondo has to take much better care of the ball. He's a veteran on his last legs and his main job is to hold the fort while DG rests. We don't need him to be 2011 Rondo.

 

[CavsKermit]

I like him. He chose to sign in CLE. Wants to be here.
Guys have to remember a couple hard points; FAs don’t want to come to CLE, and the Cavs always have to overpay a bit.
The fact Koby got Allen for 100/5 and Maark for his contract is pretty good work for this franchise.

I get that historically, there's been a Cleveland tax when it comes to acquiring free agents (particularly when the Cavs have sucked). But if you pay that tax repeatedly, you'll regret it later. Also, I think that the league is more and more getting to a place where guys want to win and want to get paid. If you have a good team, your chances of signing a good player are better than if you have a bad one.

Again, I don't think signing Lauri to that contract was a fatal error, I don't think he'd take a significant trade asset to trade, but it would take some draft capital to trade him for an expiring contract and you don't want to accumulate too many of those contracts..