2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

[Heat Check]

Going to be hard to start Rubio because the team is really committed to developing Garland. I don’t see it happening even if Rubio does clearly make us better in the short run

That's pretty much been the story of Rubio's NBA life after he blew out his knee in Minny. He always seems like the most sensible choice to start at PG long-term, but his teams have had various agendas pushing him to the bench - or trading him. It's pretty amazing when you consider how good he is.

Still, the NBA follows its own twisted logic. Ricky was a child prodigy whose game developed super early (I believe he started his pro career in Spain when he was 14), and he's spent all his NBA career playing very near his ceiling. You would think that's a good thing since he's obviously a very useful player, but in this league, that also means you can't sell long-term hope by starting Ricky Rubio. And hope is what bad and middling teams sell to their fanbases. It's important. That's why you see guys like Garland starting and Ricky sitting.

Ever since Ricky was like 20, it's been "well, he is what he is". He's a pro's pro, a guy you can insert into any situation. He'll always do his job and make other players better. The flipside is that it's been 10 years since anyone seriously thought he would develop a dependable outside shot. That has always limited him and it will continue to do so until the day he retires.

 

[Dr No]

And hope is what bad and middling teams sell to their fanbases.

This is about as accurate as a statement gets.

 

[RubioFanLifer]

That's pretty much been the story of Rubio's NBA life after he blew out his knee in Minny. He always seems like the most sensible choice to start at PG long-term, but his teams have had various agendas pushing him to the bench - or trading him. It's pretty amazing when you consider how good he is.

Still, the NBA follows its own twisted logic. Ricky was a child prodigy whose game developed super early (I believe he started his pro career in Spain when he was 14), and he's spent all his NBA career playing very near his ceiling. You would think that's a good thing since he's obviously a very useful player, but in this league, that also means you can't sell long-term hope by starting Ricky Rubio. And hope is what bad and middling teams sell to their fanbases. It's important. That's why you see guys like Garland starting and Ricky sitting.

Ever since Ricky was like 20, it's been "well, he is what he is". He's a pro's pro, a guy you can insert into any situation. He'll always do his job and make other players better. The flipside is that it's been 10 years since anyone seriously thought he would develop a dependable outside shot. That has always limited him and it will continue to do so until the day he retires.

That's not true. Rubio was a starter almost all of this career (Minny, Utah, Suns), Only last season back in Minny they put him on the bench when D.Russell was healthy, but even then Rubio started a bunch of games for them.

He was traded first because Thibs didn't ever liked him, second time he was a poor fit in Jazz offensive system where he spent a lot of time off the ball. And 3rd time Suns just had a chance to upgrade to Chris Paul despite Rubio having his best season for them. And 4th time Minny just made a bad trade, Prince is not a difference maker, but it's their problem now.

 

[MirORich]

We'll probably end up trading Rubio for a future 1st at the deadline, but I would look to extend him on a 2y/30M deal
It will be absolutely beneficial to Mobley/Allen/Markannen and whatever other young players we keep and draft over that period of time

 

[bigfoot5415]

We'll probably end up trading Rubio for a future 1st at the deadline, but I would look to extend him on a 2y/30M deal
It will be absolutely beneficial to Mobley/Allen/Markannen and whatever other young players we keep and draft over that period of time

I too think Rubio would be beneficial player to help guide us through this. I have to imagine he will want to chase a ring.

That being said, I'm used to our assets just expiring. It would be nice to get a late 1st for him.

 

[Dr No]

I too think Rubio would be beneficial player to help guide us through this. I have to imagine he will want to chase a ring.

That being said, I'm used to our assets just expiring. It would be nice to get a late 1st for him.

Trading him to a contender for picks/young prospects is probably the right thing to do for both parties, but he certainly makes the team more watchable right now.

 

[Mcreek]

“My concern is Okoro since he doesn't really have anything to fall back on with offense from last season. He is the one that doesn't look like he has made any progress.”

I know it is foolish to put too much in to a couple exhibition games but Okoro thus far is invisible. How does a guy that comes in to the league advertised as a high energy player on defense fail to grab a single rebound? How many has he grabbed in all three games 2 or 3? A high energy motor guy could at least get 5-6 long rebounds by accident but Okoro can’t even do that. I get that his offense is behind schedule (we hope), but at least fill out the stat sheet by doing other things that players of his pedigree are able to do otherwise send him to the G league because right now he is a waste of space. Most first year players make some progress in their second year but okoro looks like a huge bust right now.

 

[daytripper]

Having watched Markannen in Chicago the past few seasons playing him long spurts at the 3 is a potential disaster. Koby put this crazy roster together with 4 7footers and 4 short guys as the best players. If Windler is actually healthy he could solve alot of issues at the 3 but relying on him to stay healthy is a huge question after his first 2 seasons in the league.

As far as Okoro I definitely agree his rebounding is a huge issue and something a few of us brought up last season. If he's not going to contribute offensively he needs to at least grab boards. He's very athletic and has a high activity level when not standing in the corner on offense so the total lack of rebounding is just a mystery to me. It's only preseason but seeing all the 0's in his boxscore is a bit depressing.

 

[buzzdog]

Stop watching preseason games and trying to form any type of opinion based on them. You guys sound ridiculous. These games mean nothing and you can glean very little from them. Why do you feel in such a hurry to spit out analysis?

Good post.

 

[red.]

Cavaliers coach J.B. Bickerstaff said he may play Lauri Markkanen at small forward when the team goes big.​

“It’s one of those things where I believe he’s one of our best players,” Bickerstaff said of Markkanen. “So we have to do what we can to get him on the floor so he can help us. His versatility helps. Right now, you see the strength of our bigs and the fact that they are so versatile and they can play next to each other, you can get them out there on the floor.” This is great news for Markkanen's fantasy value, as the Cavs have plenty of depth upfront, so there was a concern about how many minutes would be available. However, if Markkanen can log minutes alongside Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley or Kevin Love, that's would allow for an uptick in playing time.

 

[BigZ94]

JBB is either lying or clueless. I went back and watched again, focusing on Markkanen on D. He’s terrible. He’s slow and out out of position all the time. Whoever he was guarding had a wide open shot whenever they wanted.

What I’m hearing from all my friends who are Bulls fans is that he’s the worst defender they’ve ever seen

 

[Heat Check]

What I’m hearing from all my friends who are Bulls fans is that he’s the worst defender they’ve ever seen

Better to watch the games. I think he's done a pretty good job on D all preseason. As a straight up rim protector, he sucks. But that's not news.

 

[Heat Check]

That's not true. Rubio was a starter almost all of this career (Minny, Utah, Suns), Only last season back in Minny they put him on the bench when D.Russell was healthy, but even then Rubio started a bunch of games for them.

He was traded first because Thibs didn't ever liked him, second time he was a poor fit in Jazz offensive system where he spent a lot of time off the ball. And 3rd time Suns just had a chance to upgrade to Chris Paul despite Rubio having his best season for them. And 4th time Minny just made a bad trade, Prince is not a difference maker, but it's their problem now.

I know he's been a starter. Rubio is so good it's hard to justify playing him off the bench, but my point was that he's never really seemed to be in his teams' long term plans either.

It's funny to me that even here, people are already talking about him as an interim guy who could/should be flipped at some point. That's just how it goes with Ricky, for the reasons I outlined above.

When you're such a known quantity, a good player who never causes trouble and can quickly adapt to whatever circumstances BUT whose game also has a hard ceiling, you become the perfect trade chip in the NBA. That's what happened to Ricky.

He'll have a job in this league until he's 40 if he wants to, but he'll probably have to play for 5 more teams to reach that.

 

[cavsfever]

Markky at small forward is just JBB trying to make the best of his crazy roster. He can’t very well say “management gave me three seven foot and two six foot starters and forgot to include a SF, I’m scratching my head here but I’ll try to patch it up best I can”.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

In his last 13 games last year Okoro averaged 15.7 ppg and scored in double figures 12 times. I don't see any reason he can't average 16 ppg this year.

This team is head and shoulders over last year. For example, in the last week of the season the Cavs lost 111-102 to Indiana. They trailed by 2 points going into the 4th quarter.

Garland, Love, Osman, Prince, and Hartenstein were out. Wade and Dotson started and played 38 and 26 minutes. Brodric Thomas, Jeremiah Martin, and Kabengele came off the bench to play 34, 15, and 16 minutes. So Thomas, Martin, Kabengele, Wade, and Dotson - five guys who won't sniff the floor this year even if they make the team - played 119 minutes. And they still were down two starting the fourth quarter and lost by nine. Indiana ended up 34-38.

There will be no comparison between this year's Cavaliers and last year's.