2021 Series #22 | Indians @ Pirates | June18-20

[CATS44]

If you look at FIP and FIP+, the three youngsters don't look to bad.

Hentges...4.38...4.28
Mejia........3.68...3.71
Quantrill...3.76...4.25

For reference...

Civale......4.38...4.22
Plesac.....4.54...4.41

Quantrill doesn't look bad when you compare career numbers.

Quantrill....4.09..4.42 (177.2 IP)
Civale........4.01..4.23 (224.2 IP)
Plesac.......4.47..4.52 (229.2 IP)

This is not to say that any of these kids will be as good as Plesac and Civale, but the underlying numbers do point to optimism.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If you look at FIP and FIP+, the three youngsters don't look to bad.

Hentges...4.38...4.28
Mejia........3.68...3.71
Quantrill...3.76...4.25

For reference...

Civale......4.38...4.22
Plesac.....4.54...4.41

Quantrill doesn't look bad when you compare career numbers.

Quantrill....4.09..4.42 (177.2 IP)
Civale........4.01..4.23 (224.2 IP)
Plesac.......4.47..4.52 (229.2 IP)

This is not to say that any of these kids will be as good as Plesac and Civale, but the underlying numbers do point to optimism.

Hentges and Mejia did not pitch competitively last year and it set them back. So this year I'm looking more at the trend line than the season numbers. I know it was the Pirates but I'm encouraged by what I saw this weekend. They all seem to be progressing.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

I f'n loved Kruk. Never forget when he put his helmet on backwards and switched to the right side of the plate when the Big Unit buzzed his tower. Funny shit!

My favorite memory of Kruk was when someone (Letterman, maybe) asked him how an athlete could eat the kind of crap he ate, and he answered, “I’m not an athlete; I’m a ball-player!”

 

[CATS44]

Along with great players like Trout, baseball needs characters like Kruk.

While MLB is a business, baseball at its heart is still a kids game...and a kids game should be fun.

 

[DCTribefan]

Along with great players like Trout, baseball needs characters like Kruk.

While MLB is a business, baseball at its heart is still a kids game...and a kids game should be fun.

Or dare I say characters like Bauer.

 

[Lee]

If you look at FIP and FIP+, the three youngsters don't look to bad.

Hentges...4.38...4.28
Mejia........3.68...3.71
Quantrill...3.76...4.25

For reference...

Civale......4.38...4.22
Plesac.....4.54...4.41

Quantrill doesn't look bad when you compare career numbers.

Quantrill....4.09..4.42 (177.2 IP)
Civale........4.01..4.23 (224.2 IP)
Plesac.......4.47..4.52 (229.2 IP)

This is not to say that any of these kids will be as good as Plesac and Civale, but the underlying numbers do point to optimism.

Explain FIP and FIP+ if you have time please.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Explain FIP and FIP+ if you have time please.

It's basically ERA and ERA+ normalized to take things like defense out of the equation.

FIP

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) measures what a player's ERA would look like over a given period of time if the pitcher were to have experienced league average results on balls in play and league…

library.fangraphs.com

 

[Lee]

It's basically ERA and ERA+ normalized to take things like defense out of the equation.

FIP

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) measures what a player's ERA would look like over a given period of time if the pitcher were to have experienced league average results on balls in play and league…

library.fangraphs.com

what is era+?

 

[CATS44]

Explain FIP and FIP+ if you have time please.

Simply put, FIP is a measurement of how pitchers handle the things they can control...Ks, BBs, HBPs, HRs, and the sequence in which plays happen. It takes defense completely out of the equation, hence Fielding Independent Performance.

In theory, two pitchers that pitch equally well against the same competition would have the same FIP, but the one with the better defense behind him would have a better ERA.

xFIP stands for Expected FIP, and uses the MLB average home run rate per fly ball than what the pitcher's actual home run rate is.

I'm not a complete fan of FIP, because it penalizes pitchers who pitch to contact and get a lot of weak contact....but it is a better measurement than ERA.

Hence, FIP loves a pitcher like Bieber with his high K rate, but doesn't look as kindly at Civale.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

what is era+?

Instead of just a number, it is ERA normalized to everyone around you. So, 100 is average. 200 would be incredible. 80 is below average.

Basically, if a pitcher today has an ERA over 4, he's not doing great. Back in the roid era, that would've been pretty solid. ERA+ allows you to compare across seasons and generations to see how good a pitcher was with respect to the offenses at the times and other pitchers of his era.

 

[CATS44]

what is era+?

Again, in simple terms, ERA+ is a pitchers ERA measured against the average ERA in the league at that point in time.

Its similar to OPS+, which measures a batters OPS against the league average. I like both, because it makes it easier to compare players of different seasons or eras.

An example is Bob Feller compared to Bieber.

Fellers career ERA was 3.25 to Biebers 3.31. On the surface, Feller was slightly better. But Fellers ERA+ was 122 to Biebers 139.

Feller was 22% better than the pitchers of his era. Bieber has been 39% better than the pitchers in his era.

Biebs has a long way to go to be Feller...and is unlikely to do so. But if he maintains his present production long term, he conceivably could do it.

 

[Lee]

Again, in simple terms, ERA+ is a pitchers ERA measured against the average ERA in the league at that point in time.

Its similar to OPS+, which measures a batters OPS against the league average. I like both, because it makes it easier to compare players of different seasons or eras.

An example is Bob Feller compared to Bieber.

Fellers career ERA was 3.25 to Biebers 3.31. On the surface, Feller was slightly better. But Fellers ERA+ was 122 to Biebers 139.

Feller was 22% better than the pitchers of his era. Bieber has been 39% better than the pitchers in his era.

Biebs has a long way to go to be Feller...and is unlikely to do so. But if he maintains his present production long term, he conceivably could do it.

Feller was a funny comparison because of his long, long career that should of been longer if not for military.

I know you know this, you commented on it, but funny....and thanks for the explanation.

 

[CATS44]

Instead of just a number, it is ERA normalized to everyone around you. So, 100 is average. 200 would be incredible. 80 is below average.

Basically, if a pitcher today has an ERA over 4, he's not doing great. Back in the roid era, that would've been pretty solid. ERA+ allows you to compare across seasons and generations to see how good a pitcher was with respect to the offenses at the times and other pitchers of his era.

To illustrate this, Dave Burba was a good pitcher for us. He gave us lots of consistent starts. But if you look at just his numbers today, you wouldn't want him on your team.

Except that he pitched in a far different era. His career ERA was 4.49, but he was almost exactly league average at 99 ERA+

 

[CATS44]

Feller was a funny comparison because of his long, long career that should of been longer if not for military.

I know you know this, you commented on it, but funny....and thanks for the explanation.

Yeah. Its not a fair representation of what Feller would have been if he had not chosen to join the Navy.

But I was looking for two names that everybody knew with similar ERAs.

 

[sportscoach]

Feller was a funny comparison because of his long, long career that should of been longer if not for military.

I know you know this, you commented on it, but funny....and thanks for the explanation.

I also use it like I do BABIP for hitters. I compare the ERA to the FIP. If the FIP is higher than the ERA, that means he got lucky, and will regress and if his FIP is lower than his ERA then he has been unlucky and should actually start doing better. Not always true, but over a certain amount of innings, FIP and ERA usually are close to each other. For relievers with lower amount of Innings, the FIP in my mind is a better evaluation than ERA as a quick reference.