2023-24 Regular Season Thread II: March Toward Destiny

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Cavs season with starting 5 pretty much intact: 21-16 and a made 53 footer from being 20-17.

The rest of the Cavs season: 17-4.

I have to believe JBB thinks the potential of the starting 5 with Mobley and Garland is higher than the one with Okoro and Wade, so he's going with Mobley and Garland for now in hopes it gets better.

Garland was 7-for-14 on 3's last night and tossed in 5 assists. He had just one turnover in 44 minutes. He's getting there.

Mobley had 25 points, 13 rebounds, and 4 blocks. We lost because Allen took the night off (Drummond outrebounded him 26 to 4 and outscored him 17 to 11 in just two more minutes), Mitchell was tired from playing 38 minutes the night before and choked on a free throw, Niang scored 2 points on 5 shots, and the Bulls just outworked the Cavs on the glass.

Even Terry Pluto, who never says anything bad about anybody, got on Bickerstaff, criticizing his lineups. He also said the players let themselves be bullied, especially Allen. He singled out Okoro for failing to get a single rebound in 24 minutes. Some guy named Bitim, playing his 3rd NBA game and the same size as Okoro, had 8 rebounds in 28 minutes.

It looks like the word around the league is that the way to beat Cleveland is to get extremely physical on defense (Vucevic fouled out) and send everybody to the offensive glass. It worked last night.

When the Cavs played the Sixers last week, Cameron Payne was interviewed at halftime. He said the Sixers need to "throw the first punch".

The good thing is the Cavs will be seeing more bully ball after teams look at last night's film. The Cavs will have to get more physical in response. They rank 5th in the NBA in defensive rebounding percantage at 77%, so last night was an aberration. Not many teams have an Andre Drummond. I'm sure his 26 rebounds last night was a season high in the NBA just like the Bulls' 74 rebounds was a season high.

Cavs were bullied in Chicago, and J.B. Bickerstaff didn’t have his finest moment – Terry Pluto Scribbles

The Cavs blew an 11-point lead with nine minutes left in the game and lost to Chicago 132-123 in double overtime.

www.cleveland.com

 

[Dr. Claw]

I have to believe JBB thinks the potential of the starting 5 with Mobley and Garland is higher than the one with Okoro and Wade, so he's going with Mobley and Garland for now in hopes it gets better.

Garland was 7-for-14 on 3's last night and tossed in 5 assists. He had just one turnover in 44 minutes. He's getting there.

Mobley had 25 points, 13 rebounds, and 4 blocks. We lost because Allen took the night off (Drummond outrebounded him 26 to 4 and outscored him 17 to 11 in just two more minutes), Mitchell was tired from playing 38 minutes the night before and choked on a free throw, Niang scored 2 points on 5 shots, and the Bulls just outworked the Cavs on the glass.

Even Terry Pluto, who never says anything bad about anybody, got on Bickerstaff, criticizing his lineups. He also said the players let themselves be bullied, especially Allen. He singled out Okoro for failing to get a single rebound in 24 minutes. Some guy named Bitim, playing his 3rd NBA game and the same size as Okoro, had 8 rebounds in 28 minutes.

It looks like the word around the league is that the way to beat Cleveland is to get extremely physical on defense (Vucevic fouled out) and send everybody to the offensive glass. It worked last night.

When the Cavs played the Sixers last week, Cameron Payne was interviewed at halftime. He said the Sixers need to "throw the first punch".

The good thing is the Cavs will be seeing more bully ball after teams look at last night's film. The Cavs will have to get more physical in response. They rank 5th in the NBA in defensive rebounding percantage at 77%, so last night was an aberration. Not many teams have an Andre Drummond. I'm sure his 26 rebounds last night was a season high in the NBA just like the Bulls' 74 rebounds was a season high.

Cavs were bullied in Chicago, and J.B. Bickerstaff didn’t have his finest moment – Terry Pluto Scribbles

The Cavs blew an 11-point lead with nine minutes left in the game and lost to Chicago 132-123 in double overtime.

www.cleveland.com

part of what you said makes me wonder why JBB doesn't just send everyone to the offensive glass himself, so this narrative can end. I saw so many Bulls in the spot where Cavs misses occurred, but not vice versa.

I also felt last night was another case of defense getting lackadaisical and they got bit several times because of it. Way too many times they let someone like Dosunmu (who was an annoyance) loose.

 

[shoes22]

I have to believe JBB thinks the potential of the starting 5 with Mobley and Garland is higher than the one with Okoro and Wade

Based on what is he thinking this? Is there any evidence of this at all? In fact there's ample evidence of the exact opposite, that the lineup with Okoro and Wade absolutely massacres opposing teams.

And to be clear, I'm not saying Mobley and Garland are not great players in a vaccum or that they're not better players overall than Okoro and Wade...I'm saying Mobley and Garland sharing a lineup with Mitchell, Allen, and Strus seems to lower the overall effectiveness of everyone.

When you start mix and matching lineups, suddenly the efficiency and net rating skyrockets. Then you go back to our starting lineup and guys start stepping all over each other, take turns ISOing in a crowded paint, and have numerous breakdowns on the defensive end. It's wild to see.

 

[Rich]

The end. This Cavs season is an inevitable march to failure and people are foolish to *checks notes* acknowledge that there are ups and downs during an 82 game season.

Like I see the same things a lot of people are seeing here, it’s been harped on all year. But this is the team and even if we accept that there need to be changes long term, we can get more out of this group. Last night could have and should have been a win. JB refused to utilize our depth. It seems likely that the core four won’t work as a unit and we will underachieve in the playoffs again, but I will continue rooting for these guys to turn the tide.

The Cavs should have won that game and would have with ever-so-slightly better late game coaching.

Bickerstaff has continued to be a terrible, terrible crunch time coach. Nothing new there.

But winning that game by a point or losing in double OT doesn't change the trajectory of the team and how it looks fully healthy vs injured.

A win simply would have served as a bit of makeup covering up the issues. Much like the 60 footer the night before did.

 

[-Akronite-]

The Cavs should have won that game and would have with ever-so-slightly better late game coaching.

Bickerstaff has continued to be a terrible, terrible crunch time coach. Nothing new there.

But winning that game by a point or losing in double OT doesn't change the trajectory of the team and how it looks fully healthy vs injured.

A win simply would have served as a bit of makeup covering up the issues. Much like the 60 footer the night before did.

Nobody is claiming this single win would change the trajectory. Our larger issues will bear out in the playoffs even in a successful & deep run, but winning for position is everything right now. I appreciated your post suggesting changes with Garland/Mobley, because I feel like a lot of people are pointing at the same thing and just waiting to say “I told you so” instead of being fans of the Cavaliers.

I was not shocked to see people come here to complain after the Dallas win. It was an incredible moment but some people have trouble living in the moment. The march to failure goes on.

 

[guitarguy]

I mean, if they didn't learn that getting manhandled on the glass loses you games last night, what's the point?

They should never win a game where they get that abused, I hope they learn something from it, cause if they keep doing this, might as well not even watch the playoffs.

I think it's good ultimately. I guess we will see what they'll do.

Also... come on y'all, it's not like they're losing to college teams, any NBA team can win any given night, they just can. Even when you have the best team in the world and you are playing the "worst" NBA team, that team is still comprised of otherworldy superstar basketball players who pretty much across the board had games in HS and College where they were the person with 40 plus points and hitting huge shots etc...

No NBA team is immune. We will have ups and downs, we are still a damn young team at that. This lose can pretty heavily go on JBB though, just garbage really. Finally, when Mitchell and Allen have off nights, it impacts us.

 

[CavsKermit]

Patty Mills waived by the Hawks. Any interest?
He's played in 95 playoff games.

We need a backup 5 and could use an emergency 4 or 3. Merrill and CPJ can barely get on the floor as is.

 

[CavsKermit]

I mean, if they didn't learn that getting manhandled on the glass loses you games last night, what's the point?

They should never win a game where they get that abused, I hope they learn something from it, cause if they keep doing this, might as well not even watch the playoffs.

I think it's good ultimately. I guess we will see what they'll do.

Also... come on y'all, it's not like they're losing to college teams, any NBA team can win any given night, they just can. Even when you have the best team in the world and you are playing the "worst" NBA team, that team is still comprised of otherworldy superstar basketball players who pretty much across the board had games in HS and College where they were the person with 40 plus points and hitting huge shots etc...

No NBA team is immune. We will have ups and downs, we are still a damn young team at that. This lose can pretty heavily go on JBB though, just garbage really. Finally, when Mitchell and Allen have off nights, it impacts us.

The reality is that without bionic TT, we don't have the personnel to do battle with Drummond and Vuc, or a rotation of WCJ, MO Wagner, and Isaac. This is especially true when the game turns into a battle of attrition as it did last night. Allen has to rest at some point and while Mobley can serve as reliable backup 5 most nights, there are matchups where he gets abused on the boards.

 

[Dr No]

Patty Mills waived by the Hawks. Any interest?
He's played in 95 playoff games.

does he have anything left? Mills of the SAS era would be great.

 

[guitarguy]

The reality is that without bionic TT, we don't have the personnel to do battle with Drummond and Vuc, or a rotation of WCJ, MO Wagner, and Isaac. This is especially true when the game turns into a battle of attrition as it did last night. Allen has to rest at some point and while Mobley can serve as reliable backup 5 most nights, there are matchups where he gets abused on the boards.

True, though Allen definitely got even more abused last night, unfortunately (ok they both did).

Still, lacking guards who get rebounds at high rate doesn't help either. Was just watching a Russ click from OKC and man, he was relentless getting rebounds, I'm like, how nice that would be if Garland was that aggressive with the boards...hell, would be nice if Okoro was that aggressive with boards...

 

[Dr No]

It looks like the word around the league is that the way to beat Cleveland is to get extremely physical on defense (Vucevic fouled out) and send everybody to the offensive glass. It worked last night.

When the Cavs played the Sixers last week, Cameron Payne was interviewed at halftime. He said the Sixers need to "throw the first punch".

The good thing is the Cavs will be seeing more bully ball after teams look at last night's film. The Cavs will have to get more physical in response.

When we play a lot of Mobley, Allen, & DG together, getting physical with us absolutely works. Allen, Mobley and DG are supremely gifted athletes, but all are thin/light for the positions they play. To ask them to go into trench warfare against much stronger/heavier guys is setting them up to fail. It makes them play the other team's game. But the book on how to combat this kind of physicality is well written by now by teams like GSW, OKC, and even Denver who really only has one banger in Jokic. You space the floor with shooters and athletes, you get ball and player movement, and you run big slow guys off the court. Your smaller guys absolutely have to play tough and physical for this to work, but it can work. I thought the reason we went out and got shooting was so we could play this way against the Knicks and Bulls of the NBA. But to line up and go conventional with these very big teams seems like a sure way to get a repeat of how our season ended last year.

 

[foucault87]

When we play a lot of Mobley, Allen, & DG together, getting physical with us absolutely works. Allen, Mobley and DG are supremely gifted athletes, but all are thin/light for the positions they play. To ask them to go into trench warfare against much stronger/heavier guys is setting them up to fail. It makes them play the other team's game. But the book on how to combat this kind of physicality is well written by now by teams like GSW, OKC, and even Denver who really only has one banger in Jokic. You space the floor with shooters and athletes, you get ball and player movement, and you run big slow guys off the court. Your smaller guys absolutely have to play tough and physical for this to work, but it can work. I thought the reason we went out and got shooting was so we could play this way against the Knicks and Bulls of the NBA. But to line up and go conventional with these very big teams seems like a sure way to get a repeat of how our season ended last year.

The problem is our chief tactician knows only one plan

 

[Mcreek]

Cavz wimpy soft as butter front court got humiliated last nite. Cavz are The softest team in the NBA and other teams know it

Bulls outrebound Cavs by historic margin in double OT win

The Bulls came back from a 12-point fourth-quarter deficit to beat the Cavaliers by nine in double overtime

www.nbcsportschicago.com

 

[2 For The Brew]

Two hottest teams before the All Star Break:

1. Cavs
2. Clippers

Records since the All Star Break:

1. Cavs 2-3
2. Clippers 1-3

Take this information however you want, but I think this sums up the ups and downs of an NBA season pretty nicely. This isn’t just happening to the Cavs

That’s because the Clippers coach was also an idiot Cavaliers coach that people wanted fired.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Cavz wimpy soft as butter front court got humiliated last nite. Cavz are The softest team in the NBA and other teams know it

Bulls outrebound Cavs by historic margin in double OT win

The Bulls came back from a 12-point fourth-quarter deficit to beat the Cavaliers by nine in double overtime

www.nbcsportschicago.com

We could have used Thompson last night. Allen and Mobley have no way to stop Drummond from going wherever he wants.

By the way, Drummond refered to himself as the best rebounder in the history of the NBA.

"The math is very simple. You got two guys who are very good at rebounding, one of them historically being the best to ever do it and the other is right behind me," Drummond said (referring to Vucevic).

Dre is a very good rebounder but he's a little off. For his career he ranks 14th in rebounds per game at 12.43. Wilt is the leader at 22.89 followed closely by Russell at 22.45. Nobody else is close.