2023-24 Season | Game #56 | Cavs @ Wizards | Feb. 25, 2024 | 6 p.m.

[Patdatass]

The only playoff teams we played at full strength with Mitchell, Allen, and those other guys were the Bucks (we were 1-1, and no the game we played them without Giannis doesn't count), the Kings, and the Clippers. We've beaten and lost to the Magic when were at full strength and we've beaten and lost to them when we were not). I'm quite certain the numbers would look a lot different as our margin of victory, when we won, was a lot smaller. But I'm not your research assistant, so you can look that up yourself.

There's a rather large postseason sample size of what Mitchell, Gobert, and a bunch of guys who like to move the ball looks like in the playoffs from his time with the Jazz. The reality is that model isn't that hard for good teams to beat.

Agree with a lot of what you’re saying here but that Jazz team lost almost totally because Gobert was exposed in the playoffs. Go small against him and he’s not as effective guarding outside the paint and can not punish you or even make a dent offensively inside of it. That was a personnel issue not a style of play issue - at least in my opinion.

 

[CavsKermit]

Agree with a lot of what you’re saying here but that Jazz team lost almost totally because Gobert was exposed in the playoffs. Go small against him and he’s not as effective guarding outside the paint and can not punish you or even make a dent offensively inside of it. That was a personnel issue not a style of play issue - at least in my opinion.

I'd argue the Utah centering their entire offense around Mitchell had more to do with it. If you can't Gobert 10-12 easy PPG, it's because you're not really trying. Also, it's pretty easy to hide bad defenders on catch and shoot players.

 

[Patdatass]

I'd argue the Utah centering their entire offense around Mitchell had more to do with it. If you can't Gobert 10-12 easy PPG, it's because you're not really trying. Also, it's pretty easy to hide bad defenders on catch and shoot players.

I watched almost every Jazz game for 4-5 years. It was hard to run plays for Gobert, especially if they are taking away the pick and roll. He's a garbage point scorer that is a great pick setter, so can also get points off the roll. He is not a guy you can give the ball to on the post and have him go to work.

Also isn't what you describe above a personnel issue? Your second best player is a 7 footer who can't consistently score on 6'7" guys and while extremely good at guarding the paint, can't cover the paint and guard the 6'7" shooter that the other team is utilizing in a small ball line-up. Mitchell while a star most likely can't be the only superstar on his team in order to win a championship. That is rarified air that only a few people have been able to do - Lebron, Kawhi, Jokic, and Giannis (probably Wade too in 2006) are the only ones to do it over the past 20 years or so. He probably needs a 1B to his 1A or needs to be the 1B to someone else's 1A. The Jazz didn't have that and the Cavs don't until one of Garland or Mobley takes that step.

 

[Peacedog]

I watched almost every Jazz game for 4-5 years. It was hard to run plays for Gobert, especially if they are taking away the pick and roll. He's a garbage point scorer that is a great pick setter, so can also get points off the roll. He is not a guy you can give the ball to on the post and have him go to work.

Also isn't what you describe above a personnel issue? Your second best player is a 7 footer who can't consistently score on 6'7" guys and while extremely good at guarding the paint, can't cover the paint and guard the 6'7" shooter that the other team is utilizing in a small ball line-up. Mitchell while a star most likely can't be the only superstar on his team in order to win a championship. That is rarified air that only a few people have been able to do - Lebron, Kawhi, Jokic, and Giannis (probably Wade too in 2006) are the only ones to do it over the past 20 years or so. He probably needs a 1B to his 1A or needs to be the 1B to someone else's 1A. The Jazz didn't have that and the Cavs don't until one of Garland or Mobley takes that step.

Or Jarrett. Don't sleep on the big man!!

 

[Tlyons]

I watched almost every Jazz game for 4-5 years. It was hard to run plays for Gobert, especially if they are taking away the pick and roll. He's a garbage point scorer that is a great pick setter, so can also get points off the roll. He is not a guy you can give the ball to on the post and have him go to work.

Also isn't what you describe above a personnel issue? Your second best player is a 7 footer who can't consistently score on 6'7" guys and while extremely good at guarding the paint, can't cover the paint and guard the 6'7" shooter that the other team is utilizing in a small ball line-up. Mitchell while a star most likely can't be the only superstar on his team in order to win a championship. That is rarified air that only a few people have been able to do - Lebron, Kawhi, Jokic, and Giannis (probably Wade too in 2006) are the only ones to do it over the past 20 years or so. He probably needs a 1B to his 1A or needs to be the 1B to someone else's 1A. The Jazz didn't have that and the Cavs don't until one of Garland or Mobley takes that step.

Exactly. Look at what Minnesota put around Gobert compared to Utah.

 

[Patdatass]

Exactly. Look at what Minnesota put around Gobert compared to Utah.

Will also be interesting to see how the TWolves fair in the playoffs this year. I think they are better suited than the Jazz teams because they have a stretch big in Towns, but those Jazz teams dominated in the regular season and then got schemed out of the playoffs.