2023-24 Season | Game #56 | Cavs @ Wizards | Feb. 25, 2024 | 6 p.m.

[Rich]

The problem with relying upon data derived from games against non-playoff teams is that it's not instructive in terms of what's going to work against playoff team.

So I'm sure you you've got the numbers available against playoff teams this season to back up your narrative, yea?

Actually, no, I'm sure you don't.

People can post on/off numbers, net ratings, and a bunch of other stuff and you just go right back to this, but don't actually post anything backing it up.


Show me that Mitchell and a group of guys who want to keep the ball moving doesn't work against playoff teams.


Because I can show you that the slow it down, my turn your turn Garland/Mitchell style doesn't work against playoff teams. I'll just point to last season's playoff failure when that's what they did.

And you'll point to absolutely nothing.

But, just to show how completely laughable your take is: During the stretch w/o Garland and Mobley and Mitchell playing point, the Cavs beat: Milwaukee twice (once by 40), Orlando by 30 (who they just lost to), and the Clippers.


Now hit us with all the evidence I'm sure you possess that it doesn't work. I know you've got it right here infront of you and you aren't just typing out a motto you've recited to yourself over and over again so as to not actually have to reassess your previously held prior beliefs about what does and does not work.

 

[MirORich]

If NBA.com numbers are correct...

Our starting 5 while DG and Mobley were injured had a Net Rating of +19.6 (Micthell, Okoro, Strus, Wade, and Allen)

For reference, this is better than any other teams starting 5. Denver starters is +13.2, Bucks +15.3, Celts +11.7, Clippers +12.6

Guess how many minutes that Cavs lineup has played since DG/Mobleys return... 17 minutes. SEVENTEEN minutes in 11 games. Best lineup in NBA.

I haven't bashed JB at all this year outside of playing Niang too much... but this is a fireable offense. I get that they aren't going to start together anymore, but how is this lineup not getting extended run together every single game?

Your point still stands but Wade missed the last two games before the break and Mitchell missed the first two games after the break so that five man unit couldn’t have played together in 4 of the 11 games you’re quoting.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

Your point still stands but Wade missed the last two games before the break and Mitchell missed the first two games after the break so that five man unit couldn’t have played together in 4 of the 11 games you’re quoting.

Valid point that I did not think of. So it's really 17 minutes in 7 games. Still not good at all.

 

[catfish]

Lets see him do it against a big physical center

 

[AllforOne]

I think there’s a big difference beat “Garland Sucks” and “Garland is not doing as well with the current team as he did when Mitchell wasn’t here and he ran the show.”

Indeed. Glad you get it; pity that others don’t.

We’re not making any moves with this group until the summer so let’s see if more time together against tougher opposition works or not. There’s a lot of talent and skills available so let’s see if they can make it work. Ideally they ALL adjust a bit.

Ideally, yes. After a year and a half - and after seeing the team struggle against some very beatable opponents as Garland returned to his usual workload - I’m skeptical. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[CavsKermit]

So I'm sure you you've got the numbers available against playoff teams this season to back up your narrative, yea?

Actually, no, I'm sure you don't.

People can post on/off numbers, net ratings, and a bunch of other stuff and you just go right back to this, but don't actually post anything backing it up.


Show me that Mitchell and a group of guys who want to keep the ball moving doesn't work against playoff teams.


Because I can show you that the slow it down, my turn your turn Garland/Mitchell style doesn't work against playoff teams. I'll just point to last season's playoff failure when that's what they did.

And you'll point to absolutely nothing.

The only playoff teams we played at full strength with Mitchell, Allen, and those other guys were the Bucks (we were 1-1, and no the game we played them without Giannis doesn't count), the Kings, and the Clippers. We've beaten and lost to the Magic when were at full strength and we've beaten and lost to them when we were not). I'm quite certain the numbers would look a lot different as our margin of victory, when we won, was a lot smaller. But I'm not your research assistant, so you can look that up yourself.

There's a rather large postseason sample size of what Mitchell, Gobert, and a bunch of guys who like to move the ball looks like in the playoffs from his time with the Jazz. The reality is that model isn't that hard for good teams to beat.

 

[MirORich]

A lot of our conversations at this point come down to this;

When Cavs are winning big and looking sexy:

Some posters: “gah its amazing, we’re amazing, see the coach is alright, etc etc”

Other posters: “regular season doesn’t mean anything, all that matters is the playoffs”

When Cavs have a bad stretch, don’t look as smooth:

Some posters: “same old shit, these guys don’t have it, see the coach does suck, etc etc”

Other posters: “regular season doesn’t matter, playoffs are all that really matters”


And we all want the same thing.. we all want them to win in the playoffs for more than we want to be proven right in our opinions in any given time during the regular season.

And the beautiful thing is, the playoffs are not some far and distant hope. They’re right around the corner.

So it will all play out in just a matter of a few months. Well either fail to advance for the first round and make several changes in both the coaching and roster realm or we’ll advance to the second round, making progress from the year before and having an opportunity to go even further.

I don’t think we advance past the second round this year but that’s just my pointless opinion that runs counter to the point of my post which is that there’s only so much prognostication to waste time on and be so firmly adamant about when the real thing is just 6-7 weeks away.

 

[MirORich]

Lets see him do it against a big physical center

He’ll probably get the opportunity to do so in the playoffs. The results and effectiveness are unknown until then

 

[buzzdog]

When you're up 10 with under 2 minutes left, you don't rush the ball up the court. I swear this board kills me sometimes.

DG can kill some clock without allowing himself to get trapped in a corner between the sideline and the half court line. I thought DG played better tonight except for when he did that, and it's something he's done a number of times. Don't stand 2 feet from a court boundary and dribble when you know a trap and pressure is coming, move into space to operate and move when the trap comes. I swear the guy goes brain dead sometimes in key moments. I categorically hate it every time he starts standing and dribbling just barely past half court. There's absolutely no reason to do that.

 

[buzzdog]

I realize that Garland can do no wrong in your eyes but DG didn't receive any pass from anybody on that play besides in the backcourt . He slowly dribbled the ball across right across the timeline and WAITED for the double team. I just watched the replay AGAIN. And we were up 7. Get you facts straight

Bingo.

 

[Dr No]

But, just to show how completely laughable your take is: During the stretch w/o Garland and Mobley and Mitchell playing point, the Cavs beat: Milwaukee twice (once by 40), Orlando by 30 (who they just lost to), and the Clippers.

You forgot to add the Mavericks on the road. And the Bulls x 2 & Hawks, who are in the play in position. Also Miami @ Miami when Mobley was out but not Darius. And the Jazz who were in playoff contention and playing well before losing 8 of their last 10. And let’s not miss the most obvious comparison - The other lineup eviscerated a considerably better Wizards team twice, while this lineup has struggled twice.

 

[jjvors]

Evan Mobley highlights:

 

[Smooth]

• The Cavs took control in the third quarter pushing their lead to double digits at various points. After trailing for much of the first half, they led for all but :29 seconds in the third quarter. It helps when you hold the opposing team to 37% shooting.
• It wouldn’t be a Wizards game without Jordan Poole getting hot. He scored 11 fourth quarter points, and the Wizards went on a 14-1 run start.
• However, the Cavs defense took control once again. The Wizards only scored 11 points the next nine minutes. Outside of the quick 5-5 hot stretch to start the quarter, the Cavs held the Wizards to 34% shooting (22-64) from quarter two to quarter four.
• After that run, the Cavs quickly struck back with back-to-back three-point makes by Garland, with LeVert setting him up on both. The six points were part of Garland’s 10 fourth quarter points and +15 which led the team.
• This coincided with the Cavs going on a 11-1 run of their own.
• And hey, LeVert hit a three – his first in three games. It was part of a fantastic fourth quarter for LeVert with seven points, six rebounds and three assists.
• It was also part of a fantastic game for LeVert who nearly had a triple-double: 18 points, 12 rebounds, and 8 assists. Amazingly enough, he had zero turnovers and his 8 assists created 21 points.

RCF RECAP
​

 

[bushwick_bill]

But I'm not your research assistant, so you can look that up yourself.

lol lol lol

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The differences between this game and the last two were 1) Mitchell played, and 2) we got some help from the bench, specifically, LeVert, who had 18 points, 12 rebounds, and 8 assists with no turnovers in 28 minutes. I can totally see why he got the chain thingy.

Mitchell is not fully recovered from his illness as he took only 10 shots in 36 minutes, but he was efficient with 16 points, 4 rebounds, and 5 assists.

It was not a satisfying win as the Cavs fell behind early in the 4th quarter following a 14-0 Wizards run to start the quarter. To the Cavs' credit they didn't panic, understanding that the Wizards were hitting some unbelievable shots and couldn't keep it up. They just kept grinding, Garland hit two huge 3's on back-to-back possessions, and the Cavs got defensive stops right and left.

Mobley had 21 points, mostly on lobs, but those five blocked shots were huge. Allen had a line of 22/12/5 as the Cavs took advantage of no Gafford, Avdija, and Kispert, who was averaging 16 ppg against the Cavs. On top of that, Coulibaly went down early after a hard fall.

Good win against a depleted 9-47 team, but it wasn't pretty. Poole had 31 points off the bench and 5 assists to keep it competitive. He obviously remembered the last game against the Cavs where he fouled out and was held scoreless, getting booed by the home fans. He was on a mission tonight, but lucky for us his teammates were 4-for-27 on their 3-point attempts.