Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[PIP]

Aaron Rodgers
Deshaun Watson (Obviously)
Derek Carr
Matt Ryan
Kirk Cousins
Jimmy Garoppolo


Those are the only real option that fit that mold. Now of course some of them are long shots but each situation is different. I just don't believe that Andrew Berry would move on from Baker and give the keys to an inexperienced QB. I also believe should we move on from Baker and acquire one of those QB's I listed I would also expect us to have a guy developing behind them. Like how The Packers and 49ers are doing right now.

And before people come and make jokes, Matthew Stafford was on that same list last season and The Rams went and got him and now they are Super Bowl contenders.

I also would like to add that the Browns have a better roster than all of those other QB's on that list to so any one of them could elevate us to true contender status with better and more consistent QB play.

Derek Carr basically said he rather die in a fire than not be the Raiders QB…

Watson I’m all for…

Baker continues to lose me on his inability to handle a rush… He starts tapping his feet when he has to go to that 2nd read and then he’s on the ground…

That miss of Felton was inexcusable… Totally understand if that was someone in the middle of the field but the guy is so open with nobody near him and the play was right in front of him…

Like Baker a lot.. I don’t trust Baker at all tho…

 

[Vee-Rex]

I think it is possible you are just underestimating how underwhelming Baker has been across a variety of metrics.

I inserted Ryan's name because I expected the reaction to be "Matt........Ryan?".

Just look at week by week QBR ranks:

Week 1 - #14
Week 2 - #16
Week 3 - #25
Week 4 - #28

His best weeks were barely climbing in to the top half of the league, which I guess was my overarching point.

QB play is pretty good right now......and the level you need to play at to be on par with the best 10 guys, week to week, is exceptionally high.

Some people think Baker can be a top 10-12 QB but then you look across the statistical spectrum and he's just so underwhelming relative to the league.

I hope he digs out of it but my reaction in this thread was more to the general indifference of his play, which I think has been pretty bad as a body of work. Especially considering his situation and the effectiveness of the run game week to week.

I get what you're saying. I do think that week 1 he played about as good as he could play and it was extremely reminiscent of 2020 latter half Baker. But of course, 1 interception at the end skews a lot of numbers.

Also, having CHUNT with an elite o-line in a wide zone scheme is just gonna take away from a lot of Baker would-be TDs. From a statistical standpoint his output will almost always be on the lower end. We just want him to be more consistent.

I'm also less concerned about QBR "rankings" in such a week-by-week comparative manner, especially early on in the season. He could be #16 with a 70 QBR (which would be REALLY good) just because other QBs also lit it up that week.

My overall point in this - it's still so early enough that just ONE good performance could drastically alter his stats and how we perceive them. A little too early to be glamorizing replacements, I would think.

 

[thestatman]

Week one. Aaron Rodgers 15-28 no td's 2 interceptions. Saints 38 Packers 3. Sometimes shit happens. The Baker haters have risen from the dead I see.

 

[Vee-Rex]

Week one. Aaron Rodgers 15-28 no td's 2 interceptions. Saints 38 Packers 3. Sometimes shit happens. The Baker haters have risen from the dead I see.

Yup. I'm cool with criticism - none of our players or coaches should be free from it.

But talking replacements... after a win? Lol. Baker didn't win it for us but he certainly didn't lose it either. A pick-6 or strip sack could've easily gave the Vikings a W. I expect Baker to have a couple of these kind of performances in a year. Difference between this year and last year is that it looks like the defense might be good enough for us to still have a shot at winning those kind of games as long as Baker protects the ball.

 

[thestatman]

Yup. I'm cool with criticism - none of our players or coaches should be free from it.

But talking replacements... after a win? Lol. Baker didn't win it for us but he certainly didn't lose it either. A pick-6 or strip sack could've easily gave the Vikings a W. I expect Baker to have a couple of these kind of performances in a year. Difference between this year and last year is that it looks like the defense might be good enough for us to still have a shot at winning those kind of games as long as Baker protects the ball.

I was as pissed off as anyone yesterday watching Baker. With that said I have absolutely zero doubts he will be a top ten quarterback this season. His performance over the final 10 weeks last season trumps one shitshow yesterday.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I get what you're saying. I do think that week 1 he played about as good as he could play and it was extremely reminiscent of 2020 latter half Baker. But of course, 1 interception at the end skews a lot of numbers.

Also, having CHUNT with an elite o-line in a wide zone scheme is just gonna take away from a lot of Baker would-be TDs. From a statistical standpoint his output will almost always be on the lower end. We just want him to be more consistent.

I'm also less concerned about QBR "rankings" in such a week-by-week comparative manner, especially early on in the season. He could be #16 with a 70 QBR (which would be REALLY good) just because other QBs also lit it up that week.

My overall point in this - it's still so early enough that just ONE good performance could drastically alter his stats and how we perceive them. A little too early to be glamorizing replacements, I would think.

All that is true, which I get.......and I'm trying to present data in different ways, so as not to try to hammer a single angle.......just pointing out that his body of work is a tough one, even when going week by week, etc.

Certainly he wasn't bad in week 1.........but any player's play is always relative to the league. If He's #14 in a week that was his best of the year, that is at least mildly concerning to me.......that his play, while good, still lags the upper 1/3rd of guys most would try to argue he's capable of ascending to.

I'm not completely out on him.......I just think he has performed poorly, especially relative to his situation. Sure, his counting stats will lag guys because he won't amass the pass attempts most others will but on the flip side, that should make him HYPER efficient across all metrics.

The comparative nature of the first 25% of this season, is more concerning, because it profiles more like 2019. He has more games to play, certainly but there are just a lot of red flags starting to go up. Too many things (TD%, Sack%, QBR, etc.) just look far more like that disaster of a 2019 season, than they do his bounce back in 2020. Hopefully he can turn it around.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Week one. Aaron Rodgers 15-28 no td's 2 interceptions. Saints 38 Packers 3. Sometimes shit happens. The Baker haters have risen from the dead I see.

Aaron Rodgers has what? Like 7-8 years of elite QB play to fall back on here?

This whole angle of argument makes no sense to me. Guys who have already performed at an elite level for long periods of time get far more leeway than a 4th year player who still looks like he's trying to figure it out.

Want to have a good back and forth here but this specific line of justification is text book apples to oranges to me.

 

[thestatman]

Aaron Rodgers has what? Like 7-8 years of elite QB play to fall back on here?

This whole angle of argument makes no sense to me. Guys who have already performed at an elite level for long periods of time get far more leeway than a 4th year player who still looks like he's trying to figure it out.

Want to have a good back and forth here but this specific line of justification is text book apples to oranges to me.

You might to to check out Mayfield's numbers over the final 10 weeks last season against Rodgers numbers over the same stretch. Mayfield stunk yesterday. Doesn't define who he is.

 

[PIP]

I was as pissed off as anyone yesterday watching Baker. With that said I have absolutely zero doubts he will be a top ten quarterback this season. His performance over the final 10 weeks last season trumps one shitshow yesterday.

Yea but we have no doubts Rodgers is a top 10 QB today and probably a top 10-15 all time.. So he gets the benefit of the doubt for a bad performance… If he was pulling a Roethlisberger then I’m sure the criticism would be there. But not the first game of the year coming off being the league MVP….

Only thing Baker has in common and can be used for any type of comparison with that guy is who has more terrible commercials ?

 

[Vee-Rex]

The comparative nature of the first 25% of this season, is more concerning, because it profiles more like 2019. He has more games to play, certainly but there are just a lot of red flags starting to go up. Too many things (TD%, Sack%, QBR, etc.) just look far more like that disaster of a 2019 season, than they do his bounce back in 2020. Hopefully he can turn it around.

Right, but all of those numbers can take a drastic turn after just one game. So I guess from my perspective - I don't really view the numbers as red flags when another week could make them look completely different. The red flags, to me, were the missed passes in week 4... but then again, it was just one game.

Data just doesn't do well with small sample sizes. If Baker plays exactly like he played week 1 (which resulted in 0 passing TDs and 1 INT) all year, there's a chance we don't lose another game. Yet he'd have like 0 TDs and 17 INTs. Conversely, if he plays like he played week 4 for the rest of the year (which resulted in 0 TDs, 0 INTs), there's a chance we don't win much more if at all. So there just isn't enough data right now to make any judgments based on things like TD%, Sack%, etc...

I strongly believe the "this is concerning/worrisome" and "red flags all over" people would be equally pessimistic if we had Aaron Rodgers and he had a horrendous game. Except the narrative wouldn't be what it is for Baker, but it'd be more like "he's getting washed" or "he doesn't care as much anymore and he's a diva".

 

[Triplethreat]

Aaron Rodgers has what? Like 7-8 years of elite QB play to fall back on here?

This whole angle of argument makes no sense to me. Guys who have already performed at an elite level for long periods of time get far more leeway than a 4th year player who still looks like he's trying to figure it out.

Want to have a good back and forth here but this specific line of justification is text book apples to oranges to me.

The point remains, players have bad games.

Go back and look at what we were saying when Mayfield was absolutely diming throws against the Chiefs week 1….. none of us have ever once seen Mayfield miss this many throws in a game. I’m willing to wager it’s an outlier vs the norm for him going forward.

Chill out.

 

[Man Called X]

Its amazing the reaction we are having. Baker was incredible game 1 and 2. Looked average game 3, horrible game 4. What is different? Baker is wearing a shoulder brace and hurt shoulder. Maybe Baker shouldnt be playing but wow do Browns fans not know how to win. we are 3-1 and beat what many considered a playoff team on the road.

Chill out, let the coaching staff address our concerns in press conferences, the media is talking about it constantly, they will ask their million questions about it.

I said after week 1 that he was still showing the same questions he's always had. I like Baker, but I've had legitimate concerns that are only growing with each passing week.

 

[thestatman]

The point remains, players have bad games.

Go back and look at what we were saying when Mayfield was absolutely diming throws against the Chiefs week 1….. none of us have ever once seen Mayfield miss this many throws in a game. I’m willing to wager it’s an outlier vs the norm for him going forward.

Chill out.

It's amazing to me that when the best quarterback this team has had in over 30 years has a bad game how many people start pitching darts. Maybe we should bring back DeShone Kizer. He's a free agent.

 

[Rich]

There's like 157 women saying Deshaun Watson is piece of garbage and people still want to trade for him I just...

 

[I'mWithDan]

It's amazing to me that when the best quarterback this team has had in over 30 years has a bad game how many people start pitching darts. Maybe we should bring back DeShone Kizer. He's a free agent.

It honestly seems like there are two different arguments trying to be had in here.

1. Players have bad games.......lets use a player Baker Mayfield is nothing alike, to try to make everyone feel better.
2. This is the best guy from a historically bad run of QB's, so let's rally around him.

To me, the conversation we should be having is:

1. Is this guy worth a $150-200 million dollar extension?
2. Will he cost a talent laden roster a legitimate shot at a super bowl?

Etc. etc.

To me, the conversation has moved on to the next level, relative to the performance of everyone else. Great coach, great GM, great roster talent. It is no longer about the "best" Browns QB in the last 30 years, or other similarly veined arguments. It is about which players are going to derail everything else that has been put in place and through 4 weeks, it is at least mildly concerning that Baker might be one of those players.