Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[The Human Q-Tip]

For the love of god I hope Conklin and wills can play. If not it’s going to be a shit show

That's the critical underlying issue. As long as we have Dumb and Dumber as our starting tackles, our QB is never going to be comfortable in the pocket, and the running game is going to be hurting.

 

[browniebob]

That's the critical underlying issue. As long as we have Dumb and Dumber as our starting tackles, our QB is never going to be comfortable in the pocket, and the running game is going to be hurting.

We can get by with Hance, but we need Conklin to get back asap.

 

[shoes22]

In case people didn’t hear the news, Baker is ruled out for tomorrow. Keenum making the start.

 

[David.]

Everyone for the love of God go bet against that -2

 

[shoes22]

So... I wonder if it would be better to shut down Baker and make him have the surgery now. I wouldn’t be happy doing this as it means this season is lost, but simply letting him “rest” and taking a game or two off won’t help the underlying situation.

The kind of injury Baker has does not heal on its own with rest.

I read that they’re going to try to strengthen the surrounding muscles to compensate, which is fine, but as soon as he gets tackled again or falls funny (and you know DTs will be going after the shoulder specifically), permanent, life-long damage can be caused.

This is also likely a big reason why Baker’s been so skittish about being hit lately, he knows the risks and starts running as soon as a defender comes anywhere near him. I don’t blame him in light of that...but do you really want to see that Baker the rest of the year? He’s not going to be effective, and will get trashed by all the usual suspects for being a “limited QB”, when really he’s just overcompensating, and for good reason.

As someone who cares about Baker even potentially being a franchise QB for the Browns, I think you have to make the call and shut him down. By not doing it and allowing him to “play through it”, I think the end result is worse for the Browns, and worse for Baker.

 

[Cassity14]

So... I wonder if it would be better to shut down Baker and make him have the surgery now. I wouldn’t be happy doing this as it means this season is lost, but simply letting him “rest” and taking a game or two off won’t help the underlying situation.

The kind of injury Baker has does not heal on its own with rest.

I read that they’re going to try to strengthen the surrounding muscles to compensate, which is fine, but as soon as he gets tackled again or falls funny (and you know DTs will be going after the shoulder specifically), permanent, life-long damage can be caused.

This is also likely a big reason why Baker’s been so skittish about being hit lately, he knows the risks and starts running as soon as a defender comes anywhere near him. I don’t blame him in light of that...but do you really want to see that Baker the rest of the year? He’s not going to be effective, and will get trashed by all the usual suspects for being a “limited QB”, when really he’s just overcompensating, and for good reason.

As someone who cares about Baker even potentially being a franchise QB for the Browns, I think you have to make the call and shut him down. By not doing it and allowing him to “play through it”, I think the end result is worse for the Browns, and worse for Baker.

Is there precedent in the NFL of how long guys are out with a surgery to repair a torn labrum? Is there any shot he'd be back at the end of the season/postseason?

 

[bob2the2nd]

Is there precedent in the NFL of how long guys are out with a surgery to repair a torn labrum? Is there any shot he'd be back at the end of the season/postseason?

so kevin love's injury was worse and required a good amount of reattachment, as far as i can tell but he was out 4-6 months

 

[browniebob]

Is there precedent in the NFL of how long guys are out with a surgery to repair a torn labrum? Is there any shot he'd be back at the end of the season/postseason?

I don't think the recovery is nearly as long as something like a knee surgery. Trevor Lawrence had a labrum surgery on his left shoulder shortly after the college season last year and I don't think he missed any offseason work with the Jags. Trubisky had a similar procedure a few years ago as well, but I believe both of these were partial tears.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Is there precedent in the NFL of how long guys are out with a surgery to repair a torn labrum? Is there any shot he'd be back at the end of the season/postseason?

Everyone is different but a fully torn labrum is probably 6 months.

The 6 month clock would currently be April, so really zero chance he's back for end of season / postseason. Surgery is for sure a season ender, which is probably why Baker wants to at least wait and see if issues beyond the Labrum heal enough to give it another go.

I think with that 6 month recovery in mind, they may push it to December.....but going beyond that would seem to (potentially) then put 2022 camp in jeopardy, if the recovery is longer than that 6 month timeline.

It certainly helps it is his non throwing shoulder.......as the stress on his throwing arm is far greater and potentially more complicated to come back from.

 

[DaNewCavs]

so kevin love's injury was worse and required a good amount of reattachment, as far as i can tell but he was out 4-6 months

The only difference is Love needs his left arm to shoot and help rebound and defend. Luckily Baker's left arm is not as important as Love's. So hopefully, all he needs to know is that he wouldn't injure it further and can handle the pain once the healing is done. I'm no doctor, but I don't think it will take 4 - 6 months to get to that point.

 

[bob2the2nd]

The only difference is Love needs his left arm to shoot and help rebound and defend. Luckily Baker's left arm is not as important as Love's. So hopefully, all he needs to know is that he wouldn't injure it further and can handle the pain once the healing is done. I'm no doctor, but I don't think it will take 4 - 6 months to get to that point.

Oh I agree. But I do think that surgery would probably be season ending. Or damn close to it

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

There apparently is more wrong with the shoulder than just the labrum, so I can't imagine it wouldn't be season-ending at this point.

It would make for a much more interesting discussion regarding his off-season and re-signing, though.

ETA: potentially re-signing

 

[I'mWithDan]

The only difference is Love needs his left arm to shoot and help rebound and defend. Luckily Baker's left arm is not as important as Love's. So hopefully, all he needs to know is that he wouldn't injure it further and can handle the pain once the healing is done. I'm no doctor, but I don't think it will take 4 - 6 months to get to that point.

There's a big difference between capable of playing and being 100%.

The reason that really matters for shoulder injuries, especially a fully torn labrum, is it isn't minor arthroscopic surgery. With a fully torn labrum, he's going to need an incision and any time you open up the body, other things can go wrong, like infection.

Rushing him back also vastly increases re-injury risk. A second incision type surgery, on the same spot, in less than a year would not be good at all. The human body is pretty miraculous but Baker isn't a robot. There are potential long term consequences when you start talking multiple surgeries that quickly.

 

[I'mWithDan]

There apparently is more wrong with the shoulder than just the labrum, so I can't imagine it wouldn't be season-ending at this point.

It would make for a much more interesting discussion regarding his off-season and re-signing, though.

ETA: potentially re-signing

Extension is a complete non starter at this point IMO. Probably for both sides.

The Browns aren't going to want to commit a large amount of long term money with health and performance questions lingering and if they did want to commit any money, it is going to be nowhere close to what Baker is willing to accept.

It is probably a case where there will be fewer hurt feelings if the Browns simply tell him to focus on getting healthy and they'll revisit extension talks after the 2022 season.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Extension is a complete non starter at this point IMO. Probably for both sides.

The Browns aren't going to want to commit a large amount of long term money with health and performance questions lingering and if they did want to commit any money, it is going to be nowhere close to what Baker is willing to accept.

It is probably a case where there will be fewer hurt feelings if the Browns simply tell him to focus on getting healthy and they'll revisit extension talks after the 2022 season.

There is zero way Mayfield is on this team next year without an extension, its that simple.

My guess is both sides arrive at something like 30-32 million/year, which puts him on the low side of starting QBs in the NFL that arent on a rookie contract.

ETA: I think the possibility of him getting traded has gone up quite a bit over the last couple of weeks, but there is exactly 1 QB who the browns should have any interest in and thats Wilson. Rodgers will just be too old by the start of next season to even entertain trading Baker for someone like him.