Darius Kinnard Garland

[dark2332]

Jaylen Brown - NO
Charlotte’s unprotected 2020 1st - YES
Miles Bridges and a Top 8 protected 2020 1st - YES IF PICK BECAME UNPROTECTED IN 2021
Caris LeVert - NO
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - YES
Mohamed Bamba - NO
Dejounte Murray - YES
Jarrett Culver + Dieng for Sexton + JR Smith - YES
Kyle Kuzma - NO

Any other landing areas out there that we can potentially think of?

 

[dark2332]

You would take Dejounte Murray who is a middling talent. But wouldn't take a chance on the upside of Mo Bamba?

Dejounte Murray is an interesting case as many thought if he hadn’t been hurt last year, he’d have been one of the NBA’s breakout stars.

He also has the length to guard both guard positions at 6’5 with a 6’10 wingspan. Kind of an SGA before SGA.

It’s all a moot point anyway. If Pop and RC are willing to trade you a player, you usually shouldn’t want that player... and if they want your player, you probably shouldn’t be giving him up.

 

[NMCav]

Dejounte Murray is an interesting case as many thought if he hadn’t been hurt last year, he’d have been one of the NBA’s breakout stars.

He also has the length to guard both guard positions. Kind of an SGA before SGA.

It’s all a moot point anyway. If Pop and RC are willing to trade you a player, you usually shouldn’t want that player... and if they want your player, you probably shouldn’t be giving him up.

He has upside I'm not aruging that. But he's coming into his fourth season and hasn't really taken that next step. Injury or not he's gonna get paid next off season as a RFA. Swapping a player like Sexton or Garland for someone your gonna have to pay who isn't a star is short sighted. Bamba is a cost effective choice. If we want Murray why not just outbid everyone in FA when we will have 50+ in cap space.

 

[CBBI]

You would take Dejounte Murray who is a middling talent. But wouldn't take a chance on the upside of Mo Bamba?

So full disclosure. I've lived in Orlando for over a decade and have caught a ton of Magic games on local TV and in person over the years, including last season.

Mo Bamba was terrible as a rookie. He was not good defensively at all despite his elite combination of length/mobility/athleticism. He has very little defensive awareness and even less grit and desire on that end.

The Magic's season completely turned around the moment Bamba got injured and missed the rest of the season. The gap in effectiveness between Bamba and some guy the Magic signed out of Europe for the minimum named Khem Birch was startlingly wide.

He's a low motor player who only seems to play hard when he thinks he's about to touch the ball offensively. I would want nothing to do with him on the Cavaliers.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

I honestly expected Sexton to have a huge 2nd year, but with Garland it becomes quite dicey.

To me, Sexton's 2nd year is of much greater importance than Garland's rookie season. For that reason, I believe we need to put the ball in Sexton's hands even if the end goal is to have it in Garland's hands more. I don't believe it is wise to take Sexton's freedom this season if we want to maximize his 2nd year growth. Although there are downsides to it if it's not in our future plan to have him as a lead guard.

I believe in Garland's talent, but no matter how you slice it, its going to be difficult and we need to be extra careful to not damage their growth and Sexton's in particular.

First of all, staggering their minutes is obviously the easiest way to maximize the growth of Garland and Sexton, respectively. I expect both will start with Garland exiting around the 7 minute mark and Sexton playing basically the entirety of the 1st quarter (could be the other way around but I kind of doubt it; Sexton needs time to find a rhythm, often). Then Garland starts the 2nd, with Sexton re-entering and Garland sitting around the 6 minute mark. Garland re-enters around the 3 minute mark and they finish the half together.

Rinse and repeat in the 2nd half. It will likely be that or some variation of it. Of course things could change if they work really well together but Garland is probably going to have a pretty light workload coming back from injury and adjusting to the speed of the NBA, etc.

I expect Sexton to begin the season playing a lot more minutes than Darius and working him in slowly. No need to rush it.

Secondly, offense shouldn’t be a problem for these guys working together, based on what I have seen and heard of Garland as a shooter — be it off-the-dribble, coming off or around off-ball screens or spotting up. He appears to be an elite shooter which will open things up for Collin. And, with the jump as a perimeter shooter he took last year, it isn’t like teams can just ignore Sexton when Garland is creating. Maybe one of our resident stat gurus can break down Sexton’s shooting numbers in spot-up or navigating off-ball screen situations last year. Seems like it was pretty damn good though.

The problem, as I am sure we are all aware, is how these two are able to defend when sharing the court. That is likely to be a problem. Whether it is the type of problem that requires us eventually (after at least first-year trial run) bringing one off the bench or picking one and trading the other ... we’ll find out down the road. But offense really should not be the problem with these two guys.

Third, I expect a lot of the pressure to be taken off of them with Beilein running a lot of sets through KLove, utilizing his complete offensive skillset which I still do not think we have ever fully seen realized here. He is the perfect bigman fit in Beilein’s schemes. You can run the offense through him really on all three levels (post, elbow, perimeter).

Getting a healthy Love back (*fingers crossed*) along with Sexton’s amazing leap as a shooter and the additions of Garland and Windler... suddenly, we can put some lineups out there to really space the floor.

Winning championships and going to The Finals is fun and all... but I truly love a good rebuild. The potential is fun, to me anyway.

 

[EdMonix11]

Why can’t Sexton be a Lou Williams type of 6th man?

I don’t think Garland-Sexton as the starting backcourt has much of a chance of working out but I also don’t really understand why people think Sexton needs to either start or be traded.

Again, I think we’ve seen enough from Sexton to know he’s probably not gonna be a primary ball handler in the NBA- He really hasn’t shown anything between the ears to make me think he could be a primary ball handler in the NBA.

I mean, his teammates at Alabama hated playing with him. His Cavs teammates had big issues with him until Knight took over primary ball handling duties. But that’s okay, I don’t mean to bash him.

Just making the case for him leading the 2nd unit where he can do his thing and be productive.

Of course I’d look to trade him if the right deal came about but I’m not liking the chances of getting decent value seeing as he’s not really a PG and pretty much destined to the role I’ve outlined above.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Why can’t Sexton be a Lou Williams type of 6th man?

I don’t think Garland-Sexton as the starting backcourt has much of a chance of working out but I also don’t really understand why people think Sexton needs to either start or be traded.

Again, I think we’ve seen enough from Sexton to know he’s probably not gonna be a primary ball handler in the NBA- He really hasn’t shown anything between the ears to make me think he could be a primary ball handler in the NBA.

I mean, his teammates at Alabama hated playing with him. His Cavs teammates had big issues with him until Knight took over primary ball handling duties. But that’s okay, I don’t mean to bash him.

Just making the case for him leading the 2nd unit where he can do his thing and be productive.

Of course I’d look to trade him if the right deal came about but I’m not liking the chances of getting decent value seeing as he’s not really a PG and pretty much destined to the role I’ve outlined above.

I don't disagree with this, but let's see what Coach can do with him and Darius together first. I think Colin had a lot of growing up to do and did so in the second half and this summer. At least I hope so.

 

[Cavatt]

Agreed. For the second coming of Stephen Curry mixed with Kyrie Irving, the hype machine seems to be in maximum overdrive.

I can’t help but feel like we are going to be in for a huge disappointment from this kid. Plus the negative impact his presence will have on Sexton has me concerned. But I certainly hope I’m wrong.

It's a lot to ask a guy who played 4 games in College to come in and be great from day 1. People say he is a great passer, so I can't wait to see it. I dunno though. T

First of all, staggering their minutes is obviously the easiest way to maximize the growth of Garland and Sexton, respectively. I expect both will start with Garland exiting around the 7 minute mark and Sexton playing basically the entirety of the 1st quarter (could be the other way around but I kind of doubt it; Sexton needs time to find a rhythm, often). Then Garland starts the 2nd, with Sexton re-entering and Garland sitting around the 6 minute mark. Garland re-enters around the 3 minute mark and they finish the half together.

Rinse and repeat in the 2nd half. It will likely be that or some variation of it. Of course things could change if they work really well together but Garland is probably going to have a pretty light workload coming back from injury and adjusting to the speed of the NBA, etc.

I expect Sexton to begin the season playing a lot more minutes than Darius and working him in slowly. No need to rush it.

Secondly, offense shouldn’t be a problem for these guys working together, based on what I have seen and heard of Garland as a shooter — be it off-the-dribble, coming off or around off-ball screens or spotting up. He appears to be an elite shooter which will open things up for Collin. And, with the jump as a perimeter shooter he took last year, it isn’t like teams can just ignore Sexton when Garland is creating. Maybe one of our resident stat gurus can break down Sexton’s shooting numbers in spot-up or navigating off-ball screen situations last year. Seems like it was pretty damn good though.

The problem, as I am sure we are all aware, is how these two are able to defend when sharing the court. That is likely to be a problem. Whether it is the type of problem that requires us eventually (after at least first-year trial run) bringing one off the bench or picking one and trading the other ... we’ll find out down the road. But offense really should not be the problem with these two guys.

Third, I expect a lot of the pressure to be taken off of them with Beilein running a lot of sets through KLove, utilizing his complete offensive skillset which I still do not think we have ever fully seen realized here. He is the perfect bigman fit in Beilein’s schemes. You can run the offense through him really on all three levels (post, elbow, perimeter).

Getting a healthy Love back (*fingers crossed*) along with Sexton’s amazing leap as a shooter and the additions of Garland and Windler... suddenly, we can put some lineups out there to really space the floor.

Winning championships and going to The Finals is fun and all... but I truly love a good rebuild. The potential is fun, to me anyway.

I am completely not worried about defense right now and I am coming around on offense. I didn't realize that Garland played off the ball quite a bit and is a fantastic spot up shooter. He doesn't need the ball in his hands. I also saw a video where the interviewer called Garland "the best high school passer I have ever seen". Both of those encourage me that it can work.

Sexton showed the ability to play sg end of last year. It is really about him getting stronger and learning NBA d.

I like defensive teams, and I like seeing the defensive light come on, but it is clearly not something Koby particularly focuses on apparently. So, wishing and hoping they are a defensive team is not really gonna do it.

Now Bickerstaff and Beilein may make it happen somehow. That would be interesting.

We also know defense has as much to do with your feet as anything else. Yes long arms help and height helps, but I've seen Lowry guard Klay credibly and I have seen Baron Davis guard LeBron credibly. Just staying in front of guy and getting in his shirt goes a long way.

Still wishing Sexton and Garland become Lowry and FVF is probably less likely than becoming CJ and Dame. We will find out organically how and if they should be used together.

 

[Nathan S]

We are looking at height, and as D-Wade proved, its really about standing reach. Luckily Sexton has long arms. His standing reach is 8-2.5. By comparison, Beal's is 8-3, McCullum's is only 8'0.5, Eric Gordon 8'3, Gary Harris, 8'0, etc.

Sexton has long arms and has added muscle. If he adds more muscle to his frame, his reach will allow him to guard sg's. Will he be able to guard them will be a mental thing, not a physical thing for Sexton.

There are some guys like Wade and Draymond who can play significantly bigger than their size because they're ridiculously talented defensive players. So I buy that there's a handful of 6'2" guys in the world who can competently guard SGs on a daily basis. But based on Sexton's track record, he's almost certainly not one of them...he has a long way to guard just one position adequately, let alone multiple positions. It's just not in the cards. It's more reasonable to hope that Garland will be a Curry-level shooter than it is to hope that Sexton will be able to guard SGs, and I say that as a guy who's not super confident in Garland.

Horrible comparison.

McCollum's freshman year didn't bear that out. CJ had four seasons in college before leaping to the NBA and often defense is terrible for younger guys, especially in the NBA.

There is not evidence that Sexton can play the 2 defensively, but there's also no evidence he can't. He has a big incomplete on D.

Truth is, we really don't know. Let's see if he takes some steps forward this year and then the team can evaluate. Let's see his capabilities and how he responds to new coaches.

Let's just not compare a guy who was 22 when he started in the NBA versus a guy who was 19.

I think coming to any conclusion on Sexton right now is a blind fantasy. We saw a lot of positive progress last year. Let's see if he can build on that on both sides and let's see if he can learn to defend the 2 adequately.

The "we really don't know" defense is worthless to me. I suppose we really don't know if Tristan can make 3's, so we should keep an open mind, give him plenty of opportunities to bomb away from deep, and see what happens, right? No, of course not...all players have weaknesses, and the art of team construction is putting players in situations that maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. That means not asking Tristan to shoot 3's, and not asking Sexton to guard SGs, even if there's a 0.1% chance that they'll be much better at those things than evidence suggests.

 

[CavsNation]

Hello !!

 

[dark2332]

Hello !!

 

[RustShack]

Defense can be learned and their size is over talked about. Talent and effort matters more, and it takes talent to be drafted high.

Cavs are in rebuild mode, you take the best player available.

Maybe Sexton and Garland work, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe in a year or two one of them gets traded, or maybe one comes off the bench as the 6th man instead. Maybe both “start” but Porter Jr quickly comes in replacing one and staying on when the other comes out ending up with more minutes.

Hard saying really until you see it happen. Score more points than you give up and you’re fine.

 

[Sebastian]

Hello !!

What are your measurements?

 

[ajz20]

Defense can be learned and their size is over talked about. Talent and effort matters more, and it takes talent to be drafted high.

Cavs are in rebuild mode, you take the best player available.

Maybe Sexton and Garland work, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe in a year or two one of them gets traded, or maybe one comes off the bench as the 6th man instead. Maybe both “start” but Porter Jr quickly comes in replacing one and staying on when the other comes out ending up with more minutes.

Hard saying really until you see it happen. Score more points than you give up and you’re fine.

Great post. Plenty of time to worry about who to or not to trade in a offseason or two after things play out naturally. Cavs are still in thier infancy in this rebuild. Remember they were originally “trying to be competitive” even though they drafted Sexton a year ago. Some posters are going to have to really embrace the long road here. If you are worried about fit and defense now, you have missed the point of where the organization is. That time will come in a few years, but the roster still has a long way to go! It will be interesting to see what the starting lineup looks like in October of 2020.
At that point you can start to look at what has been gained so far versus what would be a “good fit going forward on both ends of the floor”
Right now it is about three things. Getting as much talent as possible. Two developing that talent into a system. Three making decisions on what is still needed to form a competitive roster.
Some posters are already trying to do step 3 today. Well the Cavs are just not there, and that is okay for now!

 

[wildfan]

Don't really see a problem . If starting both doesn't work, we need to wait and see what we have. It is a long season and one could get injured. Or it's not of the realm of possibility that one could grow as both are young.
It's a good problem.

We once had both Mark Price and Kevin Johnson and we traded Johnson eventually. Think Price was a second round pick and Johnson was a 1st round pick(correct me if wrong).

Point is we need to wait and see what we have.