Darius Kinnard Garland

[inliner311]

You mentioned Barnes again, but I digress...

I guess where we differ is I *dont* think this team is "so close" to anything but making the playoffs. Could they make a fluke run this year like Atlanta did in 20-21? Sure, but I also think they'll revert to mean like that same Hawks team did in 21-22.

This is the most talented team the Cavaliers have had on the same timeline this century. However, they're also young as hell and still have some glaring weaknesses. Players don't typically reach their prime years until 27-30yrs old, and no one in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season was old enough to rent a hotel room or car without a guaradians signature. Even adding Levert to the starting lineup, he'd be the only guy reaching his prime.

I dont get why folks keep wanting to accelerate the timeline on these guys. This team is going to be good. They're going to be fun to watch. They're just not ready to compete for ECFs, let alone championships yet. In 2yrs, maybe. Definitely not now.

I completely agree that I don't think we need to accelerate our timeline. Im all for keeping our young players and seeing how they progress.

One big thing is we kind of know Mobley is going to be a good player but we really don't know how his offensive game is going to really look like. He is in the expanding phase of his development and he will have to focus it back in at some point. We could make moves for vet players and have to retool alot once Mobley really works out what his offensive game is. No point in wasting assets to do that now.

What I do think is we are missing some variety of players to really figure out how everyone fits. Koby has overloaded positions and types of players while left out searching for others. I think there is useful information from getting different types of players even if they don't truly work out. Not so good players can flash here and there to give you a taste of what a better player with a similar skill set could do in that lineup, that allows teams to figure out who to target without cycling through trades and wasting assets in doing so.

 

[guitarguy]

Ranks 12th on here. But at the same time... people talk about talent at the SF level, but it seems pretty clear the most talent in the league right now is in the PGs. What a list.

Ranking: The Top 25 point guards for the 2022-23 season

HoopsHype previews the 2022-23 NBA season by ranking the Top 25 point guards for the upcoming campaign, including Stephen Curry.

hoopshype.com

 

[foucault87]

Ranks 12th on here. But at the same time... people talk about talent at the SF level, but it seems pretty clear the most talent in the league right now is in the PGs. What a list.

Ranking: The Top 25 point guards for the 2022-23 season

HoopsHype previews the 2022-23 NBA season by ranking the Top 25 point guards for the upcoming campaign, including Stephen Curry.

hoopshype.com

Love some of those guys but garland should be above melo, jrue, SGA, and probably Harden rn

 

[Lee]

Older article, but still fun to re-read. What's fun is he still doesn't seem close to peaking...we will be a hard team to guard well.

Darius Garland has been the engine for the Cavaliers - Sports Illustrated

The Cavaliers' All-Star has been the engine in Cleveland.

www.si.com

He is closer to peak than he was his rookie year, but he is 22, no he isnt close to his peak in 4-8 years. Lillard to use as a comp, played all 4 years in college, so he was the same age as a rookie. But Garland is already a better passer than Lillard, not sure he becomes the scorer, But i think he could touch double digit assists in his prime, maybe he is at 9 or more this year, 22-23 points a game, but efficiency is really where i think he can improve.

I think Garland can be a 42-43% from 3 guy. Get the right guy next to him, if that is LeVert, or Ochai, have Mobley start shooting better, and those 7 3's a game suddenly are a bit more open, less on the ball and start going in a bit over 40% instead of a bit under. He will get stronger, so he will finish better, i think 48-49% overall is possible for him.

But he had a great year last year 22 pts 8.5 assists, 46% shooting on 38.3 from deep. But he turned 22 half way through, this kid isnt a finished product. He is a damn good product now, just not finished.

No think about this. Allen will stay this level for awhile, just entering his prime, all defense level all star center. But Mobely will be a better player than Garland, sure Garland can make an all NBA team, but we are just touching on Mobley's talent, the kid will be incredible. My point is our three future all stars are 21, 22 and 24. Other talented young players around, only older players are Love and Rubio (and Lopez), all are role players, important role players, but players like Agbaji, Okoro, Sexton, Lauri, will all be improving there games too as they are all 25 or younger.

Exciting times.

 

[AtomicDogg97]

He is closer to peak than he was his rookie year, but he is 22, no he isnt close to his peak in 4-8 years. Lillard to use as a comp, played all 4 years in college, so he was the same age as a rookie. But Garland is already a better passer than Lillard, not sure he becomes the scorer, But i think he could touch double digit assists in his prime, maybe he is at 9 or more this year, 22-23 points a game, but efficiency is really where i think he can improve.

I think Garland can be a 42-43% from 3 guy. Get the right guy next to him, if that is LeVert, or Ochai, have Mobley start shooting better, and those 7 3's a game suddenly are a bit more open, less on the ball and start going in a bit over 40% instead of a bit under. He will get stronger, so he will finish better, i think 48-49% overall is possible for him.

But he had a great year last year 22 pts 8.5 assists, 46% shooting on 38.3 from deep. But he turned 22 half way through, this kid isnt a finished product. He is a damn good product now, just not finished.

No think about this. Allen will stay this level for awhile, just entering his prime, all defense level all star center. But Mobely will be a better player than Garland, sure Garland can make an all NBA team, but we are just touching on Mobley's talent, the kid will be incredible. My point is our three future all stars are 21, 22 and 24. Other talented young players around, only older players are Love and Rubio (and Lopez), all are role players, important role players, but players like Agbaji, Okoro, Sexton, Lauri, will all be improving there games too as they are all 25 or younger.

Exciting times.

I am really hoping that Agbaji develops enough that he can be a starter in the second half of the season because his shooting can really open up things for the entire offense.

 

[gambler]

You mentioned Barnes again, but I digress...

I guess where we differ is I *dont* think this team is "so close" to anything but making the playoffs. Could they make a fluke run this year like Atlanta did in 20-21? Sure, but I also think they'll revert to mean like that same Hawks team did in 21-22.

This is the most talented team the Cavaliers have had on the same timeline this century. However, they're also young as hell and still have some glaring weaknesses. Players don't typically reach their prime years until 27-30yrs old, and no one in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season was old enough to rent a hotel room or car without a guaradians signature. Even adding Levert to the starting lineup, he'd be the only guy reaching his prime.

I dont get why folks keep wanting to accelerate the timeline on these guys. This team is going to be good. They're going to be fun to watch. They're just not ready to compete for ECFs, let alone championships yet. In 2yrs, maybe. Definitely not now.

garland says that ecf is the goal this year.....the way he shunned off rounds 1 and 2 inthat interview.... im assuming that everyone in that locker room....everyone front office....thats the goal....the the self-proclaimed max contract "leader of the squad".. .sometimes you get one shot at it and thats it.....

when i pretty much bet the board on the cavs....finals, ecf, mip, coy....i wasnt expecting anyone in front office/locker room to say "ecf" this early ...i was expecting that it woulldve been a maturation process that happened during the season...the fact that they are "all in" before training camp..... absolutely beautiful if there was any doubt that management wasnt goign to pull the trigger

 

[gambler]

i may be looking too much into this but if not.....kudos to cavs management for signing garland right now to the max before the season even started....pretty much telling sexton hes not the future eliminating any pressure and conflict between sexton and darius this season

its garlands team.....no need for sexton to come in and think or hope for otherwise

 

[inliner311]

garland says that ecf is the goal this year.....the way he shunned off rounds 1 and 2 inthat interview.... im assuming that everyone in that locker room....everyone front office....thats the goal....the the self-proclaimed max contract "leader of the squad".. .sometimes you get one shot at it and thats it.....

when i pretty much bet the board on the cavs....finals, ecf, mip, coy....i wasnt expecting anyone in front office/locker room to say "ecf" this early ...i was expecting that it woulldve been a maturation process that happened during the season...the fact that they are "all in" before training camp..... absolutely beautiful if there was any doubt that management wasnt goign to pull the trigger

It's nice that Garland has confidence but him and most this team doesn't have much if any playoff experience. They don't know how teams adjust during a playoff series and the intensity of play. I think endurance still will be an issue for Garland because it wasn't just the end of games but he also noticably worry down as the season went on. It's hard to turn that around in just one off season.

I also think people are downplaying how much Sexton could help take pressure off Garland and help keep him healthy. Also the whole this is one player's team that seems to come out from Fedor's source but seems to go against the culture they are building. Teams like the Spurs or the Warriors never really had one person as their leader. There was a group that lead the team and guys stepped up when needed. Fedor or his source seems set on figuring out some hierarchy to the team which may not have to exist or is even needed.

Like when Mobley makes his jump, are they going to anoint him to the leader of the team?

 

[Derek]

It's nice that Garland has confidence but him and most this team doesn't have much if any playoff experience. They don't know how teams adjust during a playoff series and the intensity of play. I think endurance still will be an issue for Garland because it wasn't just the end of games but he also noticably worry down as the season went on. It's hard to turn that around in just one off season.

I also think people are downplaying how much Sexton could help take pressure off Garland and help keep him healthy. Also the whole this is one player's team that seems to come out from Fedor's source but seems to go against the culture they are building. Teams like the Spurs or the Warriors never really had one person as their leader. There was a group that lead the team and guys stepped up when needed. Fedor or his source seems set on figuring out some hierarchy to the team which may not have to exist or is even needed.

Like when Mobley makes his jump, are they going to anoint him to the leader of the team?

I’m not exactly sure what you’re talking about regarding people anointing leaders.

Garland is a leader on this team. Allen probably is to some extent along with Rubio, too. In time, I expect Mobley will be as well.

Tough to think of many (any?) decent teams with just one leader. The Cavs are no exception.

 

[inliner311]

I’m not exactly sure what you’re talking about regarding people anointing leaders.

Garland is a leader on this team. Allen probably is to some extent along with Rubio, too. In time, I expect Mobley will be as well.

Tough to think of many (any?) decent teams with just one leader. The Cavs are no exception.

So alot of this stuff comes from Fedor and his source constantly ranking Cavs players. It's also constantly changing and I think if the players are hearing this kind of stuff that it isn't good for the culture of the team. I think they just need to naturally have it play out. If it's a collective of leaders and they are your best players that's good. The moment it starts becoming it's one player's team, you risk someone wanting to go somewhere else to have their own team.

I think teams with good culture don't emphasize a single player leading a team as much as the team growing as a collective and everyone doing their part.

 

[Derek]

So alot of this stuff comes from Fedor and his source constantly ranking Cavs players. It's also constantly changing and I think if the players are hearing this kind of stuff that it isn't good for the culture of the team. I think they just need to naturally have it play out. If it's a collective of leaders and they are you best players that good. The moment it starts becoming it's one player's team, you risk someone wanting to go somewhere else to have their own team.

I think teams with good culture don't emphasize a single player leading a team as much as the team growing as a collective and everyone doing their part.

Can you post a link to something? I haven’t seen a single thing ranking players in that manner.

Regardless, Fedor is a mouthpiece for the team. For the most part, he writes what the team wants to have out there.

 

[inliner311]

Can you post a link to something? I haven’t seen a single thing ranking players in that manner.

Most of the time it's in his podcast and that's how some of these other article from other source are generated. Since Fedor is really the only beat writer with a good source for the Cavs, so much is generated through him.

This is one example.

Report: Some Cavs Believe Kevin Porter Jr. Can Become Team's Best Player - Cavaliers Nation

Cleveland Cavaliers rookie Kevin Porter Jr. enjoyed a career night in his team's win over the Miami Heat on Monday night. According to a recent report, some of his teammates believe that Monday night's performance was just a glimpse into Porter Jr.'s potential.

cavaliersnation.com

 

[Derek]

Most of the time it's in his podcast and that's how some of these other article from other source are generated. Since Fedor is really the only beat writer with a good source for the Cavs, so much is generated through him.

This is one example.

Report: Some Cavs Believe Kevin Porter Jr. Can Become Team's Best Player - Cavaliers Nation

Cleveland Cavaliers rookie Kevin Porter Jr. enjoyed a career night in his team's win over the Miami Heat on Monday night. According to a recent report, some of his teammates believe that Monday night's performance was just a glimpse into Porter Jr.'s potential.

cavaliersnation.com

I’m not seeing anything in there presenting a hierarchy or ranking players though.

 

[inliner311]

I’m not seeing anything in there presenting a hierarchy or ranking players though.

He definitely ranked players in a podcast like month ago. He has done it in the past too. That's too time consuming to find where he has done that to give you examples. There is no way for me to tell you exactly where he says stuff like that without registering to a whole bunch of podcasts.

 

[Derek]

He definitely ranked players in a podcast like month ago. He has done it in the past too. That's too time consuming to find where he has done that to give you examples. There is no way for me to tell you exactly where he says stuff like that without registering to a whole bunch of podcasts.

Ok, well let’s go back to you saying this:

I think teams with good culture don't emphasize a single player leading a team as much as the team growing as a collective and everyone doing their part.

I believe the Cavs have done exactly that.