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Dion Waiters Traded

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Grade the Trade (Waiters + Kirk/Amundsen + 2nd rd pick for Smith, Shumpert, and 1st rd pick)

  • A+

    Votes: 18 7.1%
  • A

    Votes: 68 26.7%
  • B

    Votes: 106 41.6%
  • C

    Votes: 44 17.3%
  • D

    Votes: 10 3.9%
  • F

    Votes: 9 3.5%

  • Total voters
    255
  • Poll closed .
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I like rooting for young players with upside. We don't really have any young talented payers now that can develop and make it to an all-star game or really be more than they are now. TT will get incrementally better, and kyrie will get better mentally.

There is no figuring anything out, now it is just chemistry. We will know our ultimate upside next year. How boring.

Hoping for JR to behave is not as fun as hoping Dion Put's it together.

I'm seeing another Danny Green here that we will wish we had in 3 years when Shumpert is hurt and JR is long gone.[/QUOTE
Dion and Danny Green are too different people and got their second chances in to totally different organizations. Danny Green had hit rock bottom and was cut by the Spurs and begged his way back into the organization. He had Pop , Manu,Duncan and Parker as his leaders and what to look at. In OKC its KD and Westbrook... Scott Brooks isn't considered an elite coach in anyway shape or form his offense is basically isolation basketball between KD and Westbrook. I think Ego is a big difference between the two also Danny Green wants to be a NBA player, Waiters thinks and wants to be an NBA star but isn't open to learn.
 
I just looked at Dion Waiters Draft express best case/worse case NBA comparison and it said Best Case Rodney Stuckey which Dion does kind of remind me of early on in his career and worse case Smush Parker somebody who thought they were better than they were East coast Guard . He reminds me of both if he doesn't accept his role he can be like Parker out of the league and if he does at Best he will provide what Stuckey did for the Pistons when they were a contender.
 
His ceiling just isn't that high. He's never going to sniff an all-star game. I mean even a rich man's Ben Gordon is too generous. Ben Gordon was better by this point than Waiters. I mean it's two and a half years, and Pelton is right. He hasn't spent time being a good player. He's been a bad basketball player.

The expectations for him this year were that he'd turn a corner and he's regressed. Lots of people thought he'd enter into the top 5 SG discussion (some thought he might already be one....) and he's probably not top 30 at the moment.

Whether it's a lack of natural talent or his own refusal to accept a role as a non-star, he's a bad basketball player. I'm not gonna lose sleep over trading him.
 
Some delusional fans on RealGM thought Dion would be just as good if not better Wade this year. To be fair, no one knew if Wade would play at the level he's playing at right now before the season started, but for those fans to even stated that Waiters would play at his level or even better was downright laughable.
 
Cleveland Cavaliers
Perhaps the league’s most depressing story so far. They’ve underachieved on both ends and sit just three games over .500, with a tiny positive point differential to match that middling record. That understates how good they’ve been offensively; they’ve hovered around the top five in points per possession when healthy and they’ve scored at a rate above the Mavs’ league-best offense when all three of LeBron James, Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving are on the floor.

The offense is not the fluid passing machine we all envisioned. The Cavs sprinkle in some funky stuff, but this is basically a souped-up version of the stagnant LeBron-centric offense they ran during his first stint as a hometown hero — one LeBron high pick-and-roll after another, with shooters dotted around him.

And that’s fine. You can destroy defenses that way, even if they all know what’s coming. A LeBron–Tristan Thompson pick-and-roll with Kyrie Irving, Wing Shooter X, and Kevin Love spotting up is a powerful weapon.

But it’s not the sort of offense that David Blatt ran in Europe, and having Love toggle between token post-ups and begging for the ball in the corner doesn’t maximize his value. There is a space between running the offense through Love, like Minnesota did, and marginalizing him. It involves leveraging his shooting ability at power forward by having him screen and cut all over the floor — sucking defenders into his moving orbit, opening up things for teammates.

In a healthy, continuity-based offense, things like this can both start a possession and work as a second or third option if Plan A yields nothing:

Love said all the right things about committing to Cleveland, but we should all know by now that public proclamations after happy trades mean nothing. He’s a free agent this summer, and he will absolutely survey the market if things continue this way in Cleveland. LeBron’s on-court demeanor toward him has been icy; James will regularly glare back at Love after yet another enemy layup in Love’s grill.

The defense has been even worse than expected, and Anderson Varejao’s season-ending Achilles injury won’t help. Love talked a big game about washing away his warts on that end, but he hasn’t walked it yet. He still admires his 3-point shots while his defender happily leaks out in transition. Love will never be a rim protector, but just trying can help. Raise your arms, jump in the air, and cause at least some sort of distraction.

There are just too many possessions on which Love does nothing as a help defender. He watches the game happen to him.

The problems aren’t all on Love. The roster doesn’t contain a functional center. Cleveland wasted too many spots on Friends of LeBron who can’t play, and while Joe Harris and Matthew Dellavedova are charming sorts who have their moments, they shouldn’t play major rotation roles on a title contender.

LeBron has been coasting, sometimes to an embarrassing degree, on defense. Chill mode, everyone. Here’s the tell that reveals a defender isn’t working: When his man passes out of some action and cedes control to a teammate, the defender will relax. He’ll stand up straight, lower his arms, watch the rest of the possession, and perhaps even creep toward midcourt in anticipation of a fast-break chance.

With LeBron doing this all the time, it has hurt Cleveland. They’ll dial all of this up in the playoffs, but nearly halfway through the season, they did not appear a legitimate threat to any of the Western Conference powerhouses — even while piling up points with all three stars on the floor.

This trade may not change that, but it helps. Shumpert’s ambitions for ball-dominant stardom rankled the Knicks, but he’s exactly the sort of 3-and-D player Cleveland sorely needs; I mentioned him as a target for Cleveland’s bizarre Keith Bogans trade exception before the season — which they still have after using the Varejao injury exception in this deal.

Cleveland had zero such players beyond LeBron. Waiters is shooting just 26 percent from deep, and in a weird twist, he has struggled horribly on open catch-and-shoot 3s in each of the last two seasons, per SportVU data. Those are exactly the kinds of shots he needed to hit in a LeBron-centric offense.

Waiters occasionally tried on defense, but he has been mostly awful — slow, unwilling, unintuitive. Shumpert isn’t a blowaway defender, and he’s a (slightly) below-average 3-point shooter for his career. But he’s long-armed and tenacious, he can guard multiple positions, and he should grade out as quite good on that end if he can just avoid his bad tendencies — gambling for steals and losing focus off the ball as his man cuts backdoor.

Shumpert can hit enough open 3s on offense, and he has shown some secondary playmaking chops — especially earlier this season in the triangle. He can’t run an offense on his own, but if LeBron bends the defense away from Shumpert and then kicks the ball to him, Shumpert can create something off the dribble. He’s a willing and smart passer in tight spaces, and a decent enough pull-up shooter from midrange when the shot clock is running down. He’s been turnover-prone, and he barely gets to the line, but he should be able to keep things moving in a background role.

Smith is the tax that Cleveland must pay for acquiring Shumpert and a first-round pick from the Thunder — a pick that will likely fall around no. 20 this season or toward the back end of the first round next season. That’s a nice asset. It is well documented now that Cleveland has trapped itself in a place where it will be very hard to improve the roster in the easiest ways.

Shumpert and Tristan Thompson, a LeBron buddy, are free agents this summer. Re-signing both would rocket Cleveland way over the luxury tax, and that’s before even accounting for the possibility that the Cavs flip Brendan Haywood’s nonguaranteed contract for another high-salaried guy. Retaining both Shumpert and Thompson long-term might even imperil their flexibility in the vaunted summer of 2016, when most team executives expect the cap to rise by nearly $20 million — to something around $90 million.

Market-value deals for Shump and Thompson would take Cleveland well over that mark, assuming max-level contracts for LeBron and Love. A few other moves could take Cleveland close enough to the tax that even executing a sign-and-trade or using the full midlevel exception1 would be dicey.

That was already going to be the case before this trade. The needless Varejao extension put them in cap hell. Smith’s deal expires after next season, so he doesn’t affect their 2016-17 cap picture, and they were already going to be shot this summer. Shumpert replaces Waiters in the long-term cap projection.

He’s a better fit around LeBron, and Cleveland did well to add another pick beside the Memphis first-rounder it snagged two seasons ago. It won’t be a great pick, but the Cavs are avoiding the classic superteam trap of dealing away every possible method of restocking the back of the roster with young and cost-controlled players. It’s a much better than 50-50 bet that Cleveland uses one of its extra first-rounders to deal for a center; the Cavs are in serious off-and-on talks with Denver and Memphis about Timofey Mozgov and Kosta Koufos, respectively, per several league sources. They could always sign Samuel Dalembert once he becomes a free agent, but Samuel Dalembert has never been the answer to any team’s questions.

Smith, by the way, is a live body with a track record of doing some useful things in the NBA — even on good teams. Both he and Shumpert have to get healthy, but Smith is a much better shooter than Waiters, and he gives the Cavaliers a decent athlete on the wing who can actually play. That doesn’t sound like much, but the Cavs need real wing depth. It allows them to play smaller, using LeBron at power forward, without forcing so many one-dimensional liabilities onto the court.

The Cavs will need that kind of lineup flexibility until they somehow get a full stock of big men. Smith is a head case prone to jacking even worse shots than Waiters, but he can make more of those shots, and the Cavs won’t need him to play major minutes.

Lowe's take if not already posted.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/n...valier-new-york-knicks-oklahoma-city-thunder/
 
Some delusional fans on RealGM thought Dion would be just as good if not better Wade this year. To be fair, no one knew if Wade would play at the level he's playing at right now before the season started, but for those fans to even stated that Waiters would play at his level or even better was downright laughable.

I was one who bought into the hype, thinking he could be a poor mans Wade in the starting lineup.

Some of the problem for his play this season no doubt has to fall on Blatt. The dude basically got forced out of the starting lineup and into the doghouse within 5 games of the season. Not saying it was all the coaches fault but we didn't do him many favors either..
 
I was one who bought into the hype, thinking he could be a poor mans Wade in the starting lineup.

Some of the problem for his play this season no doubt has to fall on Blatt. The dude basically got forced out of the starting lineup and into the doghouse within 5 games of the season. Not saying it was all the coaches fault but we didn't do him many favors either..

Blatt. And Brown. And Scott. And...who was his SYR coach?
 
I like rooting for young players with upside. We don't really have any young talented payers now that can develop and make it to an all-star game or really be more than they are now. TT will get incrementally better, and kyrie will get better mentally.

There is no figuring anything out, now it is just chemistry. We will know our ultimate upside next year. How boring.

Hoping for JR to behave is not as fun as hoping Dion Put's it together.

I'm seeing another Danny Green here that we will wish we had in 3 years when Shumpert is hurt and JR is long gone.

The thing is... Dion CAN'T get to his potential here, the fit just isn't here. This is completely different than Danny Green. I mean Dion might reach his potential somewhere else but he would not be able to do that here. And he didn't want to accept his role here, so it was not a match any longer.
 
The thing is... Dion CAN'T get to his potential here, the fit just isn't here. This is completely different than Danny Green. I mean Dion might reach his potential somewhere else but he would not be able to do that here.

Yep cause perfect fits like Kevin Love have slipped into their roles like into a well worn pair of Jeans.
 
Yep cause perfect fits like Kevin Love have slipped into their roles like into a well worn pair of Jeans.

Kevin Love is literally a hundred times better than Dion, though, therefore gets much more leeway.

Just how it works.
 
I was one who bought into the hype, thinking he could be a poor mans Wade in the starting lineup.

Some of the problem for his play this season no doubt has to fall on Blatt.
The dude basically got forced out of the starting lineup and into the doghouse within 5 games of the season. Not saying it was all the coaches fault but we didn't do him many favors either..

I dont get this at all... I mean, at all. Blatt had 1 training camp with him and what, 25 games? He came out of camp starting between Kyrie Irving and Lebron James, a gift most SGs in the league would kill for, and spent those games throwing fits on the court when he didnt get the ball.

It's his third year in the league and he's added very little to his game, still bitches at refs constantly, and very obviously refuses to accept coaching or a role he doesnt like.

I get that the first rule of fanhood 101 is blame the coach, defend the young player, but it's obviously not the case here. Dion played (and pouted) his way out of the lineup, more than once, and Dion is the biggest reason he's now in OKC...
 
Let it go people. The ship has done set sail. The JR Smith thread is just down the hall.
 
I dont get this at all... I mean, at all. Blatt had 1 training camp with him and what, 25 games? He came out of camp starting between Kyrie Irving and Lebron James, a gift most SGs in the league would kill for, and spent those games throwing fits on the court when he didnt get the ball.

It's his third year in the league and he's added very little to his game, still bitches at refs constantly, and very obviously refuses to accept coaching or a role he doesnt like.

I get that the first rule of fanhood 101 is blame the coach, defend the young player, but it's obviously not the case here. Dion played (and pouted) his way out of the lineup, more than once, and Dion is the biggest reason he's now in OKC...

Love is having the same problem. Do both these guys really suck or is there something else to it?

Blatt is not putting these guys in the right position to succeed. At the very least, stick to more of a modern substitution pattern instead of just throwing random players out there at random intervals. Any good bench player needs to have a good routine so they can get in a good rhythm.
 
A day later, still doesn't actually feel like it happened.
 
Love is having the same problem. Do both these guys really suck or is there something else to it?

Blatt is not putting these guys in the right position to succeed. At the very least, stick to more of a modern substitution pattern instead of just throwing random players out there at random intervals. Any good bench player needs to have a good routine so they can get in a good rhythm.

Lazy, blind, blanket analysis from afar. ESPN has trained you well.

Look man, if you really thought Blatt was going to click his fingers and everyone on this roster was going to slide into a perfect role like magic even 2/3rds of the way through the season, welcome to reality I guess.

I expected this, a coach trying to find the right mix, a team trying to figure out how to play together against NBA competition (yes, even the bad teams have talent), and stars getting used to roles and playing styles they've never had to before. Injuries galore havent helped. There were going to be bumps, and there will be more.

I suggest you recalibrate your expectations and realize this was going to take time... or just re-adjust the blindfold and keep lobbing bombs at Blatt cuz it's easy. Everybody's doing it.
 
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