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ESPN 30 for 30 ("Believeland" 3/31 at CLE Film Festival, ESPN airing 5/14 9:30 PM EST

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GreasySpread36 said:
As someone who has rooted for Cleveland teams since the early '80s, as someone who was born here and will die here, I loved this doc. It evoked a lot of memories and emotions, and by no means were all them bad. I remembered how excited we were in the days before the '86 title game, when everyone thought the Browns were going to the Super Bowl, when there were hokey Browns songs on the radio, paper-mache Browns helmets on the statues downtown... stuff like that. And a lot of pride in who we are and what we're all about. I thought it did a great job capturing the love we have for our teams, our city and our area.

Of course they talked about the Drive, the Fumble, the Shot, the Mesa, the Decision, and they had to... but it's funny. Whenever I talk to people who aren't Cleveland fans those are the things they bring up. I like to point out that those were the good times- memorable teams that won a lot of games and played in great games and big games. No, the real "curse" lies in those years when all three teams suck ass, and we all know they suck ass, and we also know right from the jump there isn't a snowball's chance in hell any of them are going to do shit. That's when it really blows.

Obviously the filmmakers had an interest in Earnest Byner as a tragic hero, and he really was. He was a terrific player and clutch performer- 161 yards and two TDs in the '85 playoffs against the Dolphins, 122 yards and two TDs in the '87 playoffs against the Colts, and 187 combined yards and two TDs against Denver. He is a stand-up guy and has a huge heart. I feel badly that he felt the need to apologize. Earnest Byner doesn't have a damned thing to apologize for.
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Mostly the same sentiment. Byner doesn't have to apologize for anything. The curse is a narrative. It is a talking point to rationalize what had just happened. Oh we are cursed so therefore we are destined to lose because of some irrational belief in a sort of "religion" that doesn't exist.
 
Anyone found a download link for it as yet? Was hoping something would've gone live by now for us internationals!
 
Not nearly enough time spent on the Cavs, and I would have loved to see (in a perverse, masochistic way) the Tribe collapse from '07.
 
Did Dan Gilbert provide any comments on the decision and return?
 
I still dislike the Denver Broncos, and I disliked Elway as much as I currently can't stand Green and Curry. We have to beat Golden State, we can not let them be this generations Broncos. The Broncos kept us from going to the Super Bowl 3 of 4 years.
I know people are going to get angry when I say this but, I left the documentary with renewed frustration from the Dolans from the baseball side. Not because of the perception they dont spend money, but they just never seem to have or display the passion to win a championship like a Gilbert. Yes, Dan is at times unstable/ and is too involved (he is far from perfect) but he wants it bad (is willing to spend on front office and players) and when ownership cares as much as the fans it means a lot. I just dont think the Dolans have connnected they care to the die hard clev sports fan about how important it is to win a title.
Again I know many of the posters from the tribe board will object to this, but I can tell you there are a ton and ton of us long time Cle sports fans that feel this way. Now are we right? That is up for debate.
 
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CLEistheCITY said:
Did Dan Gilbert provide any comments on the decision and return?
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He did, but I can't remember what he said. He said he wouldn't have wrote the letter of he had to do it all over again, but the letter truly wasn't about LeBron in the end.
 
GreasySpread36 said:
I've rationalized the 2007 ALCS. Boston was about 4-3 better than the Indians, and the last three games were a case of things regressing to the mean.
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This is the REAL reason for a lot of Cleveland heartbreak.

Cleveland teams are leading that aren't as good as the teams they're beating. They're younger and lack playoff experience or they don't have the talent. And that's usually proven by the fact that the teams that beat them go on to win it all that year or within a year or two.

You're talking about a top 10 of all time QB in Elway. The GOAT in Jordan. A Red Sox team that won the WS one series later.

For that reason, I really think the '97 WS was the worst. Because they were an inning away and that team essentially disbanded the next year. They weren't more talented than the Indians and there was no mean to regress to. The Indians, while their record wasn't that amazing, had a shitload of talent.

This is what makes these Cavs teams different than previous Cleveland heartbreak. They're the deepest team in the league and they have the best player in the league and they're playing the best ball in the league. They're playing up to expectation rather than above their heads.
 
It's on today at noon on ESPN2 if anyone is interested.
 
GreasySpread36 said:
I've rationalized the 2007 ALCS. Boston was about 4-3 better than the Indians, and the last three games were a case of things regressing to the mean.
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I mean. I would disagree there.

The Indinas had two of the top 4 pitchers in the AL Cy Young voting, with Sabathia winning.

Sabathia pitched game 5 and then Carmona followed with an even worse performance in game 6.

They had two 20 game winning pitchers with ERA's around 3.00 with chances to send them to the WS and got absolutely smoked.

Then Skinner giving KL the stop when the Indians were going to steal the momentum and tie the score in game 7. Ugh.

A 96 win team losing 3 games in a row and blowing a 3-1 lead is a horrible collapse. Especially considering Sabathia was pitching at home to close out the series.
 
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The Oi said:
For that reason, I really think the '97 WS was the worst. Because they were an inning away and that team essentially disbanded the next year. They weren't more talented than the Indians and there was no mean to regress to. The Indians, while their record wasn't that amazing, had a shitload of talent.
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Intellectually I know 1997 was the worst because the Indians were three outs away from a World Championship, as you said. And the '86 Browns probably wouldn't have beaten the Giants in the Super Bowl anyway. But on an emotional level the Drive hurt the worst. I was 11 years old and in sixth grade when the Drive happened. I didn't know things like the Drive even happened in sports. I was 22 in 1997, a little older, a little more cynical- I was bracing myself for the worst that entire ninth inning. 1997 just didn't have the emotional impact that the Drive had.
 
I'mWithDan said:
I mean. I would disagree there.

The Indinas had two of the top 4 pitchers in the AL Cy Young voting, with Sabathia winning.

Sabathia pitched game 5 and then Carmona followed with an even worse performance in game 6.

They had two 20 game winning pitchers with ERA's around 3.00 with chances to send them to the WS and got absolutely smoked.

Then Skinner giving KL the stop when the Indians were going to steal the momentum and tie the score in game 7. Ugh.

A 96 win team losing 3 games in a row and blowing a 3-1 lead is a horrible collapse. Especially considering Sabathia was pitching at home to close out the series.
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Oh, no doubt the Indians were an outstanding team in 2007. They were one of the two best teams in baseball that year. But the Red Sox had the best pitcher in the series (Josh Beckettt), Manny and Papi in the middle of the order, a lot of championship experience up and down the roster... they were just a little more experienced, a little tougher. The Tribe was really good, but Boston was just a little bit better, and that's how it played out.
 
GreasySpread36 said:
Oh, no doubt the Indians were an outstanding team in 2007. They were one of the two best teams in baseball that year. But the Red Sox had the best pitcher in the series (Josh Beckettt), Manny and Papi in the middle of the order, a lot of championship experience up and down the roster... they were just a little more experienced, a little tougher. The Tribe was really good, but Boston was just a little bit better, and that's how it played out.
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Disagree. The better team didn't win that series. Roiding Manny and Papi single handedly won that series for the sox.
 
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