Future Browns' Salary Cap and Team-Building Discussion

[Jordan]

Bigger chance Myles signs an extension than Denzel.

Disagreed. But my guess is they both are here long-term. I think they will move-on from Chubb when his contract expires. It may be hard because of fan pressure, though, in which case they probably nuke the receiver room.

I think the latter is very likely if this coaching staff is successful.

 

[Snowblind]

Disagreed. But my guess is they both are here long-term. I think they will move-on from Chubb when his contract expires. It may be hard because of fan pressure, though, in which case they probably nuke the receiver room.

I think the latter is very likely if this coaching staff is successful.

Do you have any teams you would model the way they do contract extensions? I would love to keep ward and garrett on defense, but with how expensive our wr room is, I feel like one of them will have to go or possibly letting chubb go (man will that suck).

 

[Jordan]

Do you have any teams you would model the way they do contract extensions? I would love to keep ward and garrett on defense, but with how expensive our wr room is, I feel like one of them will have to go or possibly letting chubb go (man will that suck).

I mean, I think pass rush is fairly replaceable, so I would not re-sign Garrett. I also would try to get Chubb on a long-term deal like the Panthers did with CMAC and front-load it.

I think we end up having to let Jarvis walk, and that is totally fine, as long as we draft someone to replace him.

As far as teams that have done well after giving out that big QB contract? The Eagles, to me, have by far been the best. The identified areas where they wanted to be strong, kept those players, and released others where it was not as important to maintain everyone.

I think the Browns are going to need to pick two-and-a-half between their receivers, Chubb, coverage, and pass-rush. You can half-ass receivers, pass-rush, or coverage. Chubb is the only one you would need to commit to 100%.

Honestly, where they commit depends on how well Stefanski does and how good Baker looks. If we crash-and-burn again this season and Baker looks like he did last year, then you probably re-sign Chubb and trade everyone else for draft picks. If the system looks great, but OBJ struggles again, then you probably trade the receivers and commit to everyone else.

The Cowboys did not prepare adequately and now are in a terrible situation where they have a new coach and need to decide who will receive contracts.

 

[Triplethreat]

You would just let our best defensive player walk because it’s “replaceable”??

I’ve really seen it all.

 

[Huber.]

I mean, I think pass rush is fairly replaceable, so I would not re-sign Garrett. I also would try to get Chubb on a long-term deal like the Panthers did with CMAC and front-load it.

I think we end up having to let Jarvis walk, and that is totally fine, as long as we draft someone to replace him.

As far as teams that have done well after giving out that big QB contract? The Eagles, to me, have by far been the best. The identified areas where they wanted to be strong, kept those players, and released others where it was not as important to maintain everyone.

I think the Browns are going to need to pick two-and-a-half between their receivers, Chubb, coverage, and pass-rush. You can half-ass receivers, pass-rush, or coverage. Chubb is the only one you would need to commit to 100%.

Honestly, where they commit depends on how well Stefanski does and how good Baker looks. If we crash-and-burn again this season and Baker looks like he did last year, then you probably re-sign Chubb and trade everyone else for draft picks. If the system looks great, but OBJ struggles again, then you probably trade the receivers and commit to everyone else.

The Cowboys did not prepare adequately and now are in a terrible situation where they have a new coach and need to decide who will receive contracts.

Who else are you clearing cap space for?

 

[Jordan]

Who are you clearing cap space for? Turn over machine Baker and an aging Beckham?

Nice cherry-picking. Try reading an entire post.

"Honestly, where they commit depends on how well Stefanski does and how good Baker looks. If we crash-and-burn again this season and Baker looks like he did last year, then you probably re-sign Chubb and trade everyone else for draft picks. If the system looks great, but OBJ struggles again, then you probably trade the receivers and commit to everyone else."

 

[Jordan]

You would just let our best defensive player walk because it’s “replaceable”??

I’ve really seen it all.

Who are you choosing not to re-sign? You cannot re-sign all of them. I am a stats guy and I have seen too much evidence that coverage is undervalued compared to pass rush and more determinative of good defensive performance. You may disagree, and that's fine, but then we're at an impasse.

 

[Huber.]

Nice cherry-picking. Try reading an entire post.

"Honestly, where they commit depends on how well Stefanski does and how good Baker looks. If we crash-and-burn again this season and Baker looks like he did last year, then you probably re-sign Chubb and trade everyone else for draft picks. If the system looks great, but OBJ struggles again, then you probably trade the receivers and commit to everyone else."

Edited my question. My bad I was distracted reading...


This team is a big question mark so this discussion is for next year in a different thread.

 

[Jordan]

Edited my question. My bad I was distracted reading...


This team is a big question mark so this discussion is for next year in a different thread.

Fair enough. Someone asked me a question and I chose to respond.

 

[Triplethreat]

Who are you choosing not to re-sign? You cannot re-sign all of them. I am a stats guy and I have seen too much evidence that coverage is undervalued compared to pass rush and more determinative of good defensive performance. You may disagree, and that's fine, but then we're at an impasse.

So you’re choosing to re-sign the guy that has yet to prove he can stay on the field vs our literal best player.

Legitimately might be the best player on the whole team.

You don’t just let STUD top 5 at their position talents leave.That’s how you become the Browns.

 

[Jordan]

So you’re choosing to re-sign the guy that has yet to prove he can stay on the field vs our literal best player.

Legitimately might be the best player on the whole team.

You don’t just let STUD top 5 at their position talents leave.That’s how you become the Browns.

Ugh, it is not worth it. You like to lob personal attacks instead of having discussions. I do not know why I even wasted time.

 

[Triplethreat]

Ugh, it is not worth it. You like to lob personal attacks instead of having discussions. I do not know why I even wasted time.

Its not a personal attack.

I just can’t wrap my head around the thought process with what we know right now about either player.

I like Ward, I do, but he hasn’t proven he can stay on the field yet so talk about giving him an extension over Myles just doesn’t seem fair at this point.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

(Keep both and trade a WR)

 

[Vee-Rex]

Ugh, it is not worth it. You like to lob personal attacks instead of having discussions. I do not know why I even wasted time.

Don't see a personal attack in there from Triplethreat.

Also, I strongly disagree. While I'm not going to get into a "coverage vs. pass rush" debate, I can STRONGLY say that Myles Garrett is a better player than Denzel Ward. Ward had a good rookie season and a meh sophomore year. Not to mention that both years he was held back by injuries, whereas Myles has only been held back by injuries in 1 of 3 years. Ward = good to great. Myles = elite.

 

[Jordan]

Its not a personal attack.

I just can’t wrap my head around the thought process with what we know right now about either player.

I like Ward, I do, but he hasn’t proven he can stay on the field yet so talk about giving him an extension over Myles just doesn’t seem fair at this point.

So I actually have done my own stat research and trust it more than PFF, but given that it is not public yet, I'll share these articles...

PFF Data Study: Coverage vs. Pass Rush | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF Data Scientists Eric Eager and George Chahrouri examine the value of both coverage and the pass rush.

www.pff.com

PFF Data Study: Coverage vs. Pass Rush Revisited | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF data scientist Eric Eager revisits the pass rush vs. coverage debate with new data and analysis.

www.pff.com

The basic argument is that coverage more consistently impacts the opponent's passing game than pass rush. And, while pass rush is still important, those players tend to get very overpaid for the plays where they have an immediate impact. Myles Garrett will probably get paid close to $25 million per year, which is roughly 12.5% of the cap. Denzel Ward will probably get $12.5 million per year, assuming he can stay healthy.

I just think you could use the extra $12.5 million in a lot of different ways. It is nothing against Myles.

I also think there is a world where the Browns choose to dump both receivers, and that is also an option. You give money to Baker, Myles, Ward, and Chubb and trust your ability to draft replacements at receiver.

All of this is academic until we see how the team looks, though.