Game Thread | Game #19 | Cavs @ Bucks | Nov. 25, 2022

[Jscc]

Fair, well I mean all you have to look at is the Celtics beating the Middleton-less Bucks in the playoffs last year. This team is not anywhere near capable of that this year as we’ve seen.

I don't think this team is capable of beating Milwaukee or Boston in a 7 game series either. Just not there yet.

I also want to see how we play a healthy Philly. Embiid and Maxey have always been problems.

 

[CavsFaninNJ]

yup. When the #2 on offense goes down (Middletown for GA, Kyrie for LBJ, etc), it can be rough. But aside from that, they can get through it. The Cavs have four guys who can't get hurt for this team to even beat Atlanta in a second round series.

Now, if the big four is healthy, there is a great margin for error regarding players 5-8...Since they have Osman, Love, LeVert, Wade, Rubio, Okoro, Stevens - and only 4 of those 7 need to be healthy for the the team to function.

But once one of the big four is down, it's bad.

 

[Dr. Claw]

I know, I know. Giannis. Best team in the league (not named Boston Celtics). Playoff experience, yada yada.
This team goes off a cliff if either of Mobley or Allen is out.
Good that Wade is back and he showed that he definitely can start at the 3. Would have been nice to have Lamar.
Actual good minutes from Okoro squandered by bad rotations following the exit of JA. Ditto for Cedi, who continues to hustle. I thought the Mobley/Wade duo was a gamble but it sure worked better than Lopez and whoever else against the Bucks.

Diakite needs to see some time in this stretch, hopefully against Detroit. I think he can be yet another Lamar/Wade type who can play if Mobley goes out.

The team plays much better defense in that line up, but the front court situation is so fragile.

 

[Pierre Pan]

A 35-10 quarter? WOOF.

What the hell happened?

Doesn’t look like JBB’s halftime speech worked very well…

I doubt that he even made one, since we were winning at that point. The frustrating part of that halftime lead was that it should have been much larger but we had some boneheaded lapses at the end of both quarters

 

[cabs]

Hope JA isnt hurt. Giannis really is incredible and the bastard always seems to make most of his free throws and threes against us

 

[TyGuy]

The browns will surely wash this taste out of our mouth this weekend.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Siakam has been in the league for 7 years now. And he was an inferior player to Mobley in his first 2 years.

Not all development is the same. Siakam showed unprecedented growth, and that’s largely because the Raptors have one of the best player development teams in the league.

Defensively, I think he’ll eventually be as legit as most people here expect. I just don’t think Mobley’s offensive skillset is that impressive. And I say that as someone who was much higher on him before the draft than pretty much anyone, but certain skills haven’t translated the way I thought they would. Even as a passer, I expected much more of him, and that was supposed to be his best attribute on that end. He sees the easy passes that are right in front of him, but he never makes the ones that separate special playmakers from merely alright for a big. His shot is below average for a PF. His handle is bad. He can’t take advantage of guards switched into him in the post. He’s athletic but not elite in that regard.

He’ll no doubt improve. I’m not questioning that. But I just don’t see what others see as far as him becoming a star who you want to feed for 20+ ppg nightly without it hurting your offense. If he had the kind of personality that has a fire behind the desire to improve, I’d buy into it more. But you don’t see that from him. It’s easy for coaches to hype up their guys and call them all tireless workers and what not, but the ones who actually have it don’t leave you doubting it.

 

[kookoo]

Not all development is the same. Siakam showed unprecedented growth, and that’s largely because the Raptors have one of the best player development teams in the league.

Defensively, I think he’ll eventually be as legit as most people here expect. I just don’t think Mobley’s offensive skillset is that impressive. And I say that as someone who was much higher on him before the draft than pretty much anyone, but certain skills haven’t translated the way I thought they would. Even as a passer, I expected much more of him, and that was supposed to be his best attribute on that end. He sees the easy passes that are right in front of him, but he never makes the ones that separate special playmakers from merely alright for a big. His shot is below average for a PF. His handle is bad. He can’t take advantage of guards switched into him in the post. He’s athletic but not elite in that regard.

He’ll no doubt improve. I’m not questioning that. But I just don’t see what others see as far as him becoming a star who you want to feed for 20+ ppg nightly without it hurting your offense. If he had the kind of personality that has a fire behind the desire to improve, I’d buy into it more. But you don’t see that from him. It’s easy for coaches to hype up their guys and call them all tireless workers and what not, but the ones who actually have it don’t leave you doubting it.

We need to steal them from the Raptors. I think we have a very basic if not below that level of ability to grow players that aren't expected to be good. What Toronto has been able to do with scouting and development is incredible. Just bring in guys with potential and turn them into candidates for ROY. Especially the 6'9 guys. We can't come close to their mid-late draft analysis. OG, Freddy, Siakam... Even the development of guys like Barnes, who was supposed to be a later pick. Meanwhile our scouting goes for Okoro, Windler, Agbaji, ect who look worse than some of the obvious picks after them... Garland IMO is the only good pick since Kyrie who has shown good year after year growth. Those odds are less than ideal.

 

[Jscc]

I just don’t think Mobley’s offensive skillset is that impressive. And I say that as someone who was much higher on him before the draft than pretty much anyone, but certain skills haven’t translated the way I thought they would. Even as a passer, I expected much more of him, and that was supposed to be his best attribute on that end. He sees the easy passes that are right in front of him, but he never makes the ones that separate special playmakers from merely alright for a big. His shot is below average for a PF. His handle is bad. He can’t take advantage of guards switched into him in the post. He’s athletic but not elite in that regard.

He’ll no doubt improve. I’m not questioning that. But I just don’t see what others see as far as him becoming a star who you want to feed for 20+ ppg nightly without it hurting your offense. If he had the kind of personality that has a fire behind the desire to improve, I’d buy into it more. But you don’t see that from him. It’s easy for coaches to hype up their guys and call them all tireless workers and what not, but the ones who actually have it don’t leave you doubting it.

When you are not being impressed watching these things, who is it you are using as a standard of measure? Who is the special playmaker you are thinking of and comparing to Mobley? Whose handle? Which PF's shot? Whose post-up game against smaller guards?

 

[The Oi]

The browns will surely wash this taste out of our mouth this weekend.

Browns will win so they can just miss the playoffs with Watson

 

[2 For The Brew]

The really sad part about the 3Q was Lopez went 2-5 from the field (no FTA) and Ice went 4-4 from the line (no FGA). The rest of the team went 1-13 from the field with no FTA.

This supports the narrative that Lopez and Ice were 100% responsible for the third quarter debacle.

Fact is Cavaliers blew most of the lead with the starting five. Bench didn’t help but nobody on the squad had even a decent 2nd half.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Jarrett Allen didn't play in the first game against Milwaukee and the Cavs played them even for 42 minutes, losing the first six minutes of the third quarter by 14 points and the game by 15.

In the first half last night the Cavs outscored the Bucks by 14 points with Allen on the floor for just 8 minutes. Allen started the second half but his hip was bothering him after the hard fall he took in the first half and he came out after 4.5 minutes.

So we've only seen the Cavs play the Bucks with Allen at 100% for eight minutes and they outscored them by 14. Obviously they don't beat the Bucks by 40 points if Allen plays 36 minutes, but I think the game would have been a lot closer. There's a huge drop-off from Allen to Robin Lopez or Isaac Okoro.

Also, the Bucks are averaging 9 points more per game at home than on the road and both games have been in Milwaukee.

I'd like to see the Cavs play the Bucks in Cleveland with Allen healthy the entire game, especially if the Bucks have Middleton and the Cavs have Love, LeVert, and Rubio. Those games would be played at a very high level, IMO. Bickerstaff would have a lot more options.

The Cavs have played the Bucks dead even on the road without Allen, or with Allen limited, for 6.5 out of 8 quarters. The other 1.5 quarters they got destroyed by 39 points. Does that mean the Cavs just need to learn how to ramp up the intensity to "playoff level" when the Bucks do? Or does it mean the Cavs have enough talent to hang with the Bucks until the Bucks decide to blow them off their backs? Or does it mean we're right there with them when a healthy Jarrett Allen is on the floor?

We'll learn more when we play them in Cleveland in three-and-a-half weeks.

 

[dice1717]

Carter & Portis with ridiculous games.

When you are not being impressed watching these things, who is it you are using as a standard of measure? Who is the special playmaker you are thinking of and comparing to Mobley? Whose handle? Which PF's shot? Whose post-up game against smaller guards?

I think he’s probably referencing the fact that he can’t dribble or shoot. You know, basic basketball skills. Throw in 2 or 3 travels per game

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I think he’s probably referencing the fact that he can’t dribble or shoot. You know, basic basketball skills. Throw in 2 or 3 travels per game

Those 8-12 foot jumpers in front of the rim are coming along. Once he gets good at knocking down jumpers from the elbows along with what he does at the rim on lobs and put-backs he'll be a 20 ppg guy.

The rebounds are way up since last month (6.0 per game in October, 9.7 in November, 11.2 the last eight games). The offensive boards are up from 1.3 to 3.2 per game.

 

[Jscc]

I think he’s probably referencing the fact that he can’t dribble or shoot. You know, basic basketball skills. Throw in 2 or 3 travels per game

If you're expecting him to shoot like a 5th year PF or dribble like a PG then yeah, he can't shoot or dribble.