Gorilla in the room: Do we now trade Love?

Lee

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Gorilla in the room?


 

sportscoach

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you trade love only if you get good value in return! I feel we won't get the value for him that we need going forward so we probably won't trade him in the end, but if a good/great offer comes to us then we take it.
 

JMoneyYourHoney

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you trade love only if you get good value in return! I feel we won't get the value for him that we need going forward so we probably won't trade him in the end, but if a good/great offer comes to us then we take it.
This type of scintillating analysis belongs solely in the Indians forum.
 

inliner311

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If we had someone that could even partly replace Love then I think it would be more of a conversation to do so. Really we have no one that could step into the starting PF spot. I think alot of us thought the coaching staff would have push Nance to be that guy but he got to do whatever he wanted last season. Not much of it translates to being a stretch 4.

Maybe if we draft Hachimura, by the trade deadline he has shown enough to give real consideration into moving Love.

I wish Denver had a 1st draft pick this year. MPJ and a 1st round pick would be nice return for Love. Gives Denver someone to replace Milsap with.
 

CBBI

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I know I will get pounded with disagrees, but I’d trade Love for almost anything.

He has one of the longest contracts in the league, so it’s not like the Cavs could actually take back a worse contract at this point.

There’s just no benefit to paying a 31 year old 30M a year over the next four years when the team is a sub-20 win team.

If your argument is “they’ll be better with Love healthy”, you’re not wrong but is that actually better for the franchise long-term? I’d rather continue to play the percentages and win less 20 games the next 2-3 years than I would win 35 and still miss the playoffs.

If your argument is “all these young guys need veterans to show them the way”, I can even buy the concept of that too, but that’s why you bring in guys like Delly who make 9M a year.

This team is a really long way (multiple seasons) from even sniffing the playoffs, much less being a legitimately competitive team.

Given his age and injury history, why would you keep a 31 year old on a near max deal around when you’re trying to maximize lottery odds?

Just doesn’t make sense.
 

Cassity14

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I know I will get pounded with disagrees, but I’d trade Love for almost anything.

He has one of the longest contracts in the league, so it’s not like the Cavs could actually take back a worse contract at this point.

There’s just no benefit to paying a 31 year old 30M a year over the next four years when the team is a sub-20 win team.

If your argument is “they’ll be better with Love healthy”, you’re not wrong but is that actually better for the franchise long-term? I’d rather continue to play the percentages and win less 20 games the next 2-3 years than I would win 35 and still miss the playoffs.

If your argument is “all these young guys need veterans to show them the way”, I can even buy the concept of that too, but that’s why you bring in guys like Delly who make 9M a year.

This team is a really long way (multiple seasons) from even sniffing the playoffs, much less being a legitimately competitive team.

Given his age and injury history, why would you keep a 31 year old on a near max deal around when you’re trying to maximize lottery odds?

Just doesn’t make sense.
Devil's advocate: having competent teammates also helps young guys learn to play the right way and develop their own skills more effectively. We saw how much better Sexton was when Love came back.

The Cavs have no need for the cap space he's currently tying up as they rebuild, and he's not good enough to have a major impact on their final win total. He's a great locker room presence. He's not going to rock the organizational boat. He sells tickets and has a marketable brand to help the team.

Not saying I downright disagree with you, but I think those are the counter points.
 

mult336

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Everyone hating on Love's contract is really a moot point because I dont think it will really matter. After the 19/20 season Kevin is the only contract on the books aside from rookie deals, Larry Nance, and if we want to lock up Cedi. I really dont see the Cavs been big Free Agent players because our team will just end up overpaying non stars and hope we dont go that route. Have to build from the draft and keeping Love helps with the culture going forward because outright tanking is not really guaranteeing you anything anymore with the new lottery. To sum it up, your going to have to pay someone to keep your payroll at the minimum threshold and I dont really mind that it is Kevin Love.
 

CBBI

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Devil's advocate: having competent teammates also helps young guys learn to play the right way and develop their own skills more effectively. We saw how much better Sexton was when Love came back.

The Cavs have no need for the cap space he's currently tying up as they rebuild, and he's not good enough to have a major impact on their final win total. He's a great locker room presence. He's not going to rock the organizational boat. He sells tickets and has a marketable brand to help the team.

Not saying I downright disagree with you, but I think those are the counter points.
I can buy the competent teammates part, but I don't think you need a 30M dollar player to do it.

The second part of your statement I have some issues with.

1. Not that I care about Dan's money, but resetting the repeater tax certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for the Cavs. Dumping Love for cheaper players or partially into someone's cap space would all but ensure the Cavs can reset the tax. If they opt to keep Love and then move JR for a bad contract and a pick like everyone wants them to do, it might limit their ability/desire to flip expiring contracts for longer/more expensive contracts and draft picks during next season because they might be up against the luxury tax again.

2. If Kevin Love isn't good enough to have a major impact on the final win total, why on earth would we want the Cavs to pay him 120M over the next four years? I actually think he would have an impact on the win total. I feel that Love playing 80 games instead of 25 could very well be worth 5-8 wins based on his previous career statistical impact. I know the lotto odds are different now, but if I have the choice of winning 22 or 30 next year, I'm gonna play the percentages and win 22.

3. I'll give you locker room presence and not rocking the boat, but I can't say I agree with Love selling a single ticket or being overly marketable. No one's beating down the door to see that guy play.
 

Cassity14

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I can buy the competent teammates part, but I don't think you need a 30M dollar player to do it.

The second part of your statement I have some issues with.

1. Not that I care about Dan's money, but resetting the repeater tax certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for the Cavs. Dumping Love for cheaper players or partially into someone's cap space would all but ensure the Cavs can reset the tax. If they opt to keep Love and then move JR for a bad contract and a pick like everyone wants them to do, it might limit their ability/desire to flip expiring contracts for longer/more expensive contracts and draft picks during next season because they might be up against the luxury tax again.

2. If Kevin Love isn't good enough to have a major impact on the final win total, why on earth would we want the Cavs to pay him 120M over the next four years? I actually think he would have an impact on the win total. I feel that Love playing 80 games instead of 25 could very well be worth 5-8 wins based on his previous career statistical impact. I know the lotto odds are different now, but if I have the choice of winning 22 or 30 next year, I'm gonna play the percentages and win 22.

3. I'll give you locker room presence and not rocking the boat, but I can't say I agree with Love selling a single ticket or being overly marketable. No one's beating down the door to see that guy play.
1. I think they're going to reset the repeater tax regardless. Insiders here have said that's a priority for Dan going forward.

2. He's not good enough to impede a tank is what I'm saying. The Cavs aren't a playoff team because they have Kevin Love. Does he make them better? Absolutely. I think he'll be relevant on this roster if they pick a good player at 5 this year and with their pick next year.

3. I think a lot of people are excited to see him play. He'll be the last remaining piece of the team that ended the curse, he's invested a lot into this fanbase (which Cleveland fans eat up), and he's extremely popular with women. He definitely puts some butts in seats, imo.
 

CBBI

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Everyone hating on Love's contract is really a moot point because I dont think it will really matter. After the 19/20 season Kevin is the only contract on the books aside from rookie deals, Larry Nance, and if we want to lock up Cedi. I really dont see the Cavs been big Free Agent players because our team will just end up overpaying non stars and hope we dont go that route. Have to build from the draft and keeping Love helps with the culture going forward because outright tanking is not really guaranteeing you anything anymore with the new lottery. To sum it up, your going to have to pay someone to keep your payroll at the minimum threshold and I dont really mind that it is Kevin Love.
This is assuming the Cavs are going to let all of their expiring contracts simply expire.

The plan presumably would be for the Cavs to continue to do what they did this past season and flip as many of those expiring deals as possible for longer contracts in exchange for draft picks.
 

CBBI

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1. I think they're going to reset the repeater tax regardless. Insiders here have said that's a priority for Dan going forward.

2. He's not good enough to impede a tank is what I'm saying. The Cavs aren't a playoff team because they have Kevin Love. Does he make them better? Absolutely. I think he'll be relevant on this roster if they pick a good player at 5 this year and with their pick next year.

3. I think a lot of people are excited to see him play. He'll be the last remaining piece of the team that ended the curse, he's invested a lot into this fanbase (which Cleveland fans eat up), and he's extremely popular with women. He definitely puts some butts in seats, imo.
I agree with you that the plan is going to be to reset the repeater tax, but that's kind of my point too.

Right now they're at 123.2M in committed salary for next season and that figure includes waiving JR and not retaining Nwaba.

Throw in #5 and #26 and that's another 6M approximately, so now you're at 129.2M. The 19-20 luxury tax is projected right now to be 132M, so not a lot of wiggle room.

If the Cavs opt to trade JR for a contract and a draft pick like we all want them to instead of waiving him, that's gonna almost certainly put them back over the tax. Let's say for argument's sake they trade JR for someone making 15M and a future 1st, that adds a little over 11M and puts them at roughly 140M and change, or about 8M over.

Now if it absolutely came down to it, they could opt to stretch Brandon Knight's 15.6M into 5.2M to alleviate 10.4M and put them back 2M under. But even if they do that, they're still going to potentially hamstrung on any potential deals they'd want to make involving Tristan, Clarkson, Dellavedova and Henson's expiring contracts in exchange for longer contracts and draft picks.

Dealing away Love to a team with cap space that strikes out in free agency where the Cavs wouldn't have to take back 25M in salary (maybe instead taking back 15M in salary) is something I'm fully on board with.
 

Cavatt

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No reason for Sexton to pass the ball to without love. Young guys often develop bad habits and don't know how to win without vets.
 
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