Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[All4One1ForAll]

The cake is baked with Cedi and Windler. If they improve in the 2022 season, expecting a huge leap is foolish.

Okoro is in a different situation. He is 21 years old and his efficiency numbers from the field, free throw line, and three all made a gigantic leap from year one to year two.

Much like Garland last season, a huge year three leap is much more possible than the other guys on that list.

I wasn't a big "draft Okoro" guy two years ago, but I'm willing to see what he can do early this season before writing him off.

I agree that it is nice that his efficiency numbers improved but the issue is that he’s so unproductive overall that it doesn’t really matter how efficient he is in his tiny role where you almost don’t even notice him out there.

The dude averaged 9.6 points, 3.1 rebounds, and 1.9 assists his rookie year. 8.8 points, 3.0 rebounds, and 1.8 assists last season. That’s a downright shocking lack of production from a starter playing 31 mpg.

Even if you add in steals and blocks, you’re looking at a combined points, steals, rebounds, assists, and blocks of just 14.7. I don’t know if there’s ever been a player who’s done that little on the floor his first two years in the league in as many mpg and become a good player. If it has happened, the list has to be very small.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I agree that it is nice that his efficiency numbers improved but the issue is that he’s so unproductive overall that it doesn’t really matter how efficient he is in his tiny role where you almost don’t even notice him out there.

The dude averaged 9.6 points, 3.1 rebounds, and 1.9 assists his rookie year. 8.8 points, 3.0 rebounds, and 1.8 assists last season. That’s a downright shocking lack of production from a starter playing 31 mpg.

Even if you add in steals and blocks, you’re looking at a combined points, steals, rebounds, assists, and blocks of just 14.7. I don’t know if there’s ever been a player who’s done that little on the floor his first two years in the league in as many mpg and become a good player. If it has happened, the list has to be very small.

I disagree with nothing you say in the first two paragraphs. Okoro floated through games as a rookie and last year. I'm still not a huge Okoro guy, and if he doesn't show a willingness to make more impact offensively, he should be a 10 minutes per game shooting guard at the end of the rotation.

That said, take a look at how Garland improved from a bad rookie season to a decent second year:

Darius Garland Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Darius Garland. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

That's a guy who was afraid to get pulled off the floor for inefficiency learning to be more efficient. In his third year, he increased both efficiency and volume.

Can Okoro do something similar? I'm not saying he is headed to an All Star appearance and become the franchise player, but maybe volume comes in year three for a young third year player.

Isaac Okoro Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Isaac Okoro. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I'm at least willing to find out. On the other hand, Windler and Cedi can pack their shit.

 

[cliffdawg]

First thing first say what you want to say about Okoro , but the guy just out there having fun, just happen to be recorded and posted by someone he probably don’t even no…..

 

[All4One1ForAll]

I disagree with nothing you say in the first two paragraphs. Okoro floated through games as a rookie and last year. I'm still not a huge Okoro guy, and if he doesn't show a willingness to make more impact offensively, he should be a 10 minutes per game shooting guard at the end of the rotation.

That said, take a look at how Garland improved from a bad rookie season to a decent second year:

Darius Garland Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Darius Garland. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

That's a guy who was afraid to get pulled off the floor for inefficiency learning to be more efficient. In his third year, he increased both efficiency and volume.

Can Okoro do setting similar? I'm not saying he is headed to an All Star appearance and become the franchise player, but maybe volume comes in year three for a young third year player.

Isaac Okoro Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Isaac Okoro. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I'm at least willing to find out. On the other hand, Windler and Cedi can pack their shit.

Garland indeed improved tremendously, but still, we're talking about a guy who averaged 17.4 ppg and 6.1 apg while shooting 39.5% from 3 in just his second year. Excluding his final 2 games against Washington where he got injured in both and had to leave the games, he averaged nearly 21/7/3 with 47/42/85 shooting splits in his last 22 games. So the third-year leap was far from unexpected. Garland had already shown a ton in terms of playmaking, outside shooting ability, and on-ball creation and the productivity was there for a guy having to take a backseat to Sexton at times, even if his defense was lacking and his efficiency was mediocre for the season on the whole.

Okoro on the other hand has shown so much less. The only things he can do are hit a wide open corner threes at a mediocre level (35.8%) and attack closeouts to score at the rim/finish in transition, so long as it doesn't require too much finesse or dribbling on his part. He averages 2.2 assists per 36 as a guard, because he has no on-ball creation ability or vision. Over 80% of his shots come in the restricted area or from the corner three. He's shoots 27% from mid range, 19% from the field in the non-RA paint area, and 33% on the above-the-break three. All of the lack of attempts and terrible percentages in those areas really demonstrate how limited of a player he is. And his defense isn't nearly good enough to make up for that, because he's too small to be that switchable or impactful on a team level and to be honest, really isn't even that lock down at his own position.

I'm rooting for him but my confidence is incredibly low at this point.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Okoro had the 3rd highest MP last year on a team that won 44 games. He’s been playing because of his defense. Until late injuries happened we were #2 in defFG% which was our main edge against other teams.

Offensively he showed improvement, especially in the open floor.

He has a lot of improvement to do if he’s going to make it but the idea he’s tapped out at 21 only three years out of HS and guys like Cedi and Windler are better for the future despite being much older is hard to take seriously.

Coach will play him.

 

[dms]

Offensively he showed improvement, especially in the open floor.

When??
Yeah, if he was ahead of the pack and all alone, he was able to score. Besides that, their was no improvement in the open floor. There was just a simple refusal to even attempt to score unless there was no other player on his side of the court. By the end of the year, even BB was just about through with Okoro, but without Sexton and LeVert they had no other options. When the play in occurred and LeVert was back, you saw Okoro's minutes collapse. If Sexton comes back, there's a good chance Okoro becomes like Cedi, seeing minutes on an irregular basis and often sitting entire games out. You simply cannot play a guy who refuses to be a part of the offense when he gives you so little else.

 

[dark2332]

I disagree with nothing you say in the first two paragraphs. Okoro floated through games as a rookie and last year. I'm still not a huge Okoro guy, and if he doesn't show a willingness to make more impact offensively, he should be a 10 minutes per game shooting guard at the end of the rotation.

That said, take a look at how Garland improved from a bad rookie season to a decent second year:

Darius Garland Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Darius Garland. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

That's a guy who was afraid to get pulled off the floor for inefficiency learning to be more efficient. In his third year, he increased both efficiency and volume.

Can Okoro do something similar? I'm not saying he is headed to an All Star appearance and become the franchise player, but maybe volume comes in year three for a young third year player.

Isaac Okoro Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Isaac Okoro. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I'm at least willing to find out. On the other hand, Windler and Cedi can pack their shit.

I’m just not sure what kind of minutes he’s going to get to show any marked improvement—especially if Sexton is back.

With LeVert, Sexton, Okoro, Agbaji, and eventually Rubio—even if we play Okoro and Agbaji some minutes at the 3, minutes are going to be tough to come by.

If Lauri only plays 18 minutes at the 3 and the rest of his at the 4, that opens 78 minutes across the 2 and 3 for 5 or so guys. 15 minutes apiece, not nearly enough.

That’s if JB has the wherewithal to take Cedi entirely out of the rotation. That also includes cutting Lamar and Dean out of the rotation.

It may happen, but I’d be very disappointed if Bickerstaff doesn’t get some rotation minutes for Agbaji. Especially since we considered him rotation-ready and we sorely lack shooting.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I disagree with nothing you say in the first two paragraphs. Okoro floated through games as a rookie and last year. I'm still not a huge Okoro guy, and if he doesn't show a willingness to make more impact offensively, he should be a 10 minutes per game shooting guard at the end of the rotation.

That said, take a look at how Garland improved from a bad rookie season to a decent second year:

Darius Garland Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Darius Garland. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

That's a guy who was afraid to get pulled off the floor for inefficiency learning to be more efficient. In his third year, he increased both efficiency and volume.

Can Okoro do something similar? I'm not saying he is headed to an All Star appearance and become the franchise player, but maybe volume comes in year three for a young third year player.

Isaac Okoro Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Isaac Okoro. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I'm at least willing to find out. On the other hand, Windler and Cedi can pack their shit.

Due to his injury, Garland had only played 5 games from the end of his senior year in HS to the start of his rookie year. Garland was likely still recovering from his injury his entire rookie year and was probably not fully healthy until his second season, so it’s difficult to say how much of his first year struggles were tied to the injury. Had Garland been healthy all year at Vandy, he probably is the #2 or #3 pick in that draft.

The Covid shut down couldn’t have helped Okoro, but I don’t think Garland/Okoro is a good comparison in terms of potential improvement because Garland always had the skills for the position. Okoro was very rare and basically drafted off athletic and physical profile along with mental makeup.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I’m just not sure what kind of minutes he’s going to get to show any marked improvement—especially if Sexton is back.

With LeVert, Sexton, Okoro, Agbaji, and eventually Rubio—even if we play Okoro and Agbaji some minutes at the 3, minutes are going to be tough to come by.

If Lauri only plays 18 minutes at the 3 and the rest of his at the 4, that opens 78 minutes across the 2 and 3 for 5 or so guys. 15 minutes apiece, not nearly enough.

That’s if JB has the wherewithal to take Cedi entirely out of the rotation. That also includes cutting Lamar and Dean out of the rotation.

It may happen, but I’d be very disappointed if Bickerstaff doesn’t get some rotation minutes for Agbaji. Especially since we considered him rotation-ready and we sorely lack shooting.

Look, I feel like some of these responses are "punching down" when I'm just trying to justify why Okoro has more upside than Windler and Cedi specifically. Again, I'm not saying he is headed to an All Star appearance and become the franchise player, but maybe volume comes in year three for a young third year player.

I will say that playing time will come to those who deserve it, and better Cavaliers depth won't change that. My biggest issue with JBB last season was running a 7 or 8 man rotation in the fall and winter. Those are weeks where you rest starters for a hangnail and phantom shin pain. Get the most out of your depth and save the 8 man rotations for the playoffs. Maybe the roster won't look exhausted by April if you handle minutes correctly.

 

[Cavatt]

He was raw and we all knew it. Scouting report said multiple years before his offense would develop.

When he has had confidence, he has looked really good. He's overly deferential we know. One of the few guys who played better with Sexton maybe because it was at a faster pace.

He hasn't shown everything he has yet. I get the feeling his ceiling comes all at once. Maybe he is there, but he has had games where he looks great, they are too rare that's for sure.

 

[Cavatt]

Look, I feel like some of these responses are "punching down" when I'm just trying to justify why Okoro has more upside than Windler and Cedi specifically. Again, I'm not saying he is headed to an All Star appearance and become the franchise player, but maybe volume comes in year three for a young third year player.

I will say that playing time will come to those who deserve it, and better Cavaliers depth won't change that. My biggest issue with JBB last season was running a 7 or 8 man rotation in the fall and winter. Those are weeks where you rest starters for a hangnail and phantom shin pain. Get the most out of your depth and save the 8 man rotations for the playoffs. Maybe the roster won't look exhausted by April if you handle minutes correctly.

Yes the intensity JB wants the guys to play with has to be coupled with more frequent substitutions and a longer rotation

 

[2 For The Brew]

When??
Yeah, if he was ahead of the pack and all alone, he was able to score. Besides that, their was no improvement in the open floor. There was just a simple refusal to even attempt to score unless there was no other player on his side of the court. By the end of the year, even BB was just about through with Okoro, but without Sexton and LeVert they had no other options. When the play in occurred and LeVert was back, you saw Okoro's minutes collapse. If Sexton comes back, there's a good chance Okoro becomes like Cedi, seeing minutes on an irregular basis and often sitting entire games out. You simply cannot play a guy who refuses to be a part of the offense when he gives you so little else.

“He gives you so little else.”

He’s a very good defender and that’s why JBB has played him.

Your claim that he was only good in the open floor shows that you either didn’t see the games or weren’t paying attention. In the open floor he was driving to the rim and either scoring or drawing FTs, which he sank at a pretty good clip. He also improved his 3 point shooting from 29% to 35%. He has no midrange shot and he’s very weak in the halfcourt. On defense he’s playing tight defense on premier wings and guards which means he’s not in good position for rebounds.

21 and two years in is way early to give up on a player, but to each his own.

 

[foucault87]

I stand by my spicy projection from RRJ. Okoro is going to surprise some people. He is two dribble moves from unlocking a lot. We see his passing instincts and defense already.

 

[dms]

“He gives you so little else.”


Your claim that he was only good in the open floor shows that you either didn’t see the games or weren’t paying attention. In the open floor he was driving to the rim and either scoring or drawing FTs, which he sank at a pretty good clip. He also improved his 3 point shooting from 29% to 35%. He has no midrange shot and he’s very weak in the halfcourt.

He improved his three point shooting because he absolutely refuses to shoot them now unless he's in the corner and there is no one within 10 feet of him. How many players do you know who took 25% less shots in their 2nd year versus their rookie year despite playing 30 minutes a game. At the end of the year, when Allen and Mobley were down and this team had a desperate need for scoring, Okoro topped 6 points, YES I SAID 6 POINTS, twice in his final 12 games. In November and December he was shooting 8 shots a game, that fell to below 6 shots a game in 2022 and continued to decline. He shot 60% in April, on FOUR shots a game. How does a starter playing 30 minutes a game take 4 shots???? It's easy to shoot a great percentage if you pass up anything with anyone in your area code, and it helps a player's percentages to do that but kills any chance of a team winning games.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

“He gives you so little else.”

He’s a very good defender and that’s why JBB has played him.

Your claim that he was only good in the open floor shows that you either didn’t see the games or weren’t paying attention. In the open floor he was driving to the rim and either scoring or drawing FTs, which he sank at a pretty good clip. He also t his 3 point shooting from 29% to 35%. He has no midrange shot and he’s very weak in the halfcourt. On defense he’s playing tight defense on premier wings and guards which means he’s not in good position for rebounds.

21 and two years in is way early to give up on a player, but to each his own.

I really don’t agree that he is a good defender tbh. He’s finished with a negative D-RAPM both seasons he’s been in the league. He doesn’t provide much help defense. Doesn’t get in the passing lanes for steals. And doesn’t help on the boards. He’s also not at all switchable, as guys taller than him always just shoot right over him. While he can’t stay in front of guys who are smaller but quicker. Remember when DeRozan smoked him? Or when Steph scored like 20-something points on him in that 4th quarter. Or when Trae embarrassed him every time we played them. Kyrie killed him in the play-in game. The one guy he seems to do consistently well against us Bradley Beal, because he’s actually his size and he’s not too quick. Okoro can do a decent job against the right kinds of players but overall he’s way too limited of a defender to be called “very good.” Watch other premier guard defenders like Thybulle, Holiday, Caruso, or Smart, and it’s clear Okoro isn’t in the same galaxy.