Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[adam81king]

man, this bar car was empty only a week ago or so.. just make sure not to take my seat when I need to get up for a piss, I've been here the entire time.

I have too, since draft night.

 

[J_J]

It is so great seeing Okoro and Windler together. Looking forward to their steps in their careers.

 

[daytripper]

man, this bar car was empty only a week ago or so.. just make sure not to take my seat when I need to get up for a piss, I've been here the entire time.

For better or worse I was definitely on the Okoro train during the weeks headed into the draft esp after it became clear they were not going to consider another PG (Haliburton). According to all the media chatter it appeared Toppin and Okongwu were the other candidates they were considering at 5 with P. Williams also gathering momentum at the end. Considering Williams was off the board, Okoro was the guy that checked off the most boxes even though he was raw as hell on the offensive end.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Okoro is 10-for-21 on 3's over the last four games. That's pretty exciting, but let's see if he can keep it going the rest of the season.

 

[OptimusPrime]

If I recall correctly, didn't Okoro's three point shooting improve over the course of the season at Auburn last year? Let him adjust to the speed of the game and what he's supposed to be doing and he'll be fine.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

All good things aside, Okoro perhaps has the worst touch on his floater I have ever seen. He shoots medicine balls!

And FWIW, I think he gets so much love from his teammates and coaches because he clearly has the biggest shlong on the team. That is clear. Doesn't even need to be good at basketball. Imagine how much respect he would get once he brings his basketball skills up to par with his shlong game.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I thought I'd compare Okoro and Lamar Stevens - our two rookie small forwards. They have a similar game. Stevens is listed at 6'6", 225 while Okoro is 6'5", 225. Stevens is 3.5 years older and played four years of college ball to one for Okoro. The numbers were compiled before the win over Houston.

In terms of usage, Stevens is more involved in the offense 13.4% to 12.1%, but not significantly. They are both low usage players.

They're very close in points per 100 shot attempts: 97.5 for Okoro to 95.7 for Stevens.

Effective field goal percentage is also close; 46.4 to 45.2 in favor of Okoro.

Three-point percentage is where Okoro is significantly better; 29.9% to 11.1%. But Okoro is trending up, having made 10 of his last 21.

In terms of assists as a percentage of usage, Stevens is better; 0.94 to 0.65.

Stevens is better finishing at the rim, hitting 60% compared to 53% for Okoro. He's also better than Okoro in the mid-range; 41% to 27%. That's from 4 to 14 feet out. Okoro's advantage on 3-pointers evens the score and puts Okoro slightly ahead in the points per shot attempt category.

Stevens protects the ball better, committing a turnover 11.6% of his possessions compared to 16.1% for Okoro. So although Okoro is a slightly better scorer he loses the ball more often. So far it's pretty even except Stevens is better on assists.

Stevens is a better free throw shooter 75% to 64.3%.

Defensively Stevens leads in block percentage 1.0% to 0.8% but Okoro has a slight advantage in steals 1.5% to 1.2%. I'd say blocks and steals combined are even. They're about even in foul percentage; 4.1% to 3.9% in favor of Okoro.

In rebounding Stevens has a big advantage on the defensive glass; 13.9% to 5.2%. On the offensive glass his advantage is less; 3.4% to 2.8%.

In the on/off category, the Cavs are 4.7 points per 100 possessions worse that their opponents when Okoro is on the court and 14.6 points worse when Stevens plays. This is obviously affected by the fact that Okoro generally plays with the starters while Stevens has been playing with the other reserves.

My question is if an NBA scout had no idea which was the #5 pick and which was undrafted, would he be able to identify which was which?

Okoro is much better at shooting 3's (although still not good at 30%) while Stevens is a much better rebounder. In every other individual category they're almost even. Stevens has a better assist number, is a better rebounder and foul shooter, is better finishing at the rim and in the mid-range, and commits fewer turnovers. The only thing Okoro does significantly better than Stevens is 3-point shooting.

As for individual defense, JBB said after the win over Atlanta that Stevens is an "elite NBA defender".

Obviously Stevens has the advantage of having played four years in colege to one for Okoro, so it's not a fair comparison. In three years Okoro should be much better than he is now. If he isn't then we spent the #5 pick on the same skill set we got for nothing. At this point Stevens doesn't even have a minimum NBA contract; he's a two-way player.

I think the Bobby Phils and David Nwaba comparisons are accurate at this point, but both players are still rookies so we'll see where they go from here.

 

[sailfish]

All good things aside, Okoro perhaps has the worst touch on his floater I have ever seen. He shoots medicine balls!

And FWIW, I think he gets so much love from his teammates and coaches because he clearly has the biggest shlong on the team. That is clear. Doesn't even need to be good at basketball. Imagine how much respect he would get once he brings his basketball skills up to par with his shlong game.

This has to be one of that strangest posts I’ve ever seen/read. A grown man talking about another man’s ‘schlong.’ Alrighty then....

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

This has to be one of that strangest posts I’ve ever seen/read. A grown man talking about another man’s ‘schlong.’ Alrighty then....

This has to be a lie when you have @Lee, @The Oi and @Deezus on this site.

 

[Man Called X]

This has to be one of that strangest posts I’ve ever seen/read. A grown man talking about another man’s ‘schlong.’ Alrighty then....

Someone didn't read the Friday Night Halo thread.

 

[Deezus]

This has to be one of that strangest posts I’ve ever seen/read. A grown man talking about another man’s ‘schlong.’ Alrighty then....

Cum to EAYOR and Olga will say hello!

 

[macbdog]

This has to be one of that strangest posts I’ve ever seen/read. A grown man talking about another man’s ‘schlong.’ Alrighty then....

Lots of grown men talk about other men's schlongs. Nothing new. Very common in the locker room. Hell, his teammates have probably seen his schlongs as much as his significant others.

 

[sailfish]

This has to be a lie when you have @Lee, @The Oi and @Deezus on this site.

I obviously haven’t been here for awhile.
What did I miss?

 

[weepinwillow]

I thought I'd compare Okoro and Lamar Stevens - our two rookie small forwards. They have a similar game. Stevens is listed at 6'6", 225 while Okoro is 6'5", 225. Stevens is 3.5 years older and played four years of college ball to one for Okoro. The numbers were compiled before the win over Houston.

In terms of usage, Stevens is more involved in the offense 13.4% to 12.1%, but not significantly. They are both low usage players.

They're very close in points per 100 shot attempts: 97.5 for Okoro to 95.7 for Stevens.

Effective field goal percentage is also close; 46.4 to 45.2 in favor of Okoro.

Three-point percentage is where Okoro is significantly better; 29.9% to 11.1%. But Okoro is trending up, having made 10 of his last 21.

In terms of assists as a percentage of usage, Stevens is better; 0.94 to 0.65.

Stevens is better finishing at the rim, hitting 60% compared to 53% for Okoro. He's also better than Okoro in the mid-range; 41% to 27%. That's from 4 to 14 feet out. Okoro's advantage on 3-pointers evens the score and puts Okoro slightly ahead in the points per shot attempt category.

Stevens protects the ball better, committing a turnover 11.6% of his possessions compared to 16.1% for Okoro. So although Okoro is a slightly better scorer he loses the ball more often. So far it's pretty even except Stevens is better on assists.

Stevens is a better free throw shooter 75% to 64.3%.

Defensively Stevens leads in block percentage 1.0% to 0.8% but Okoro has a slight advantage in steals 1.5% to 1.2%. I'd say blocks and steals combined are even. They're about even in foul percentage; 4.1% to 3.9% in favor of Okoro.

In rebounding Stevens has a big advantage on the defensive glass; 13.9% to 5.2%. On the offensive glass his advantage is less; 3.4% to 2.8%.

In the on/off category, the Cavs are 4.7 points per 100 possessions worse that their opponents when Okoro is on the court and 14.6 points worse when Stevens plays. This is obviously affected by the fact that Okoro generally plays with the starters while Stevens has been playing with the other reserves.

My question is if an NBA scout had no idea which was the #5 pick and which was undrafted, would he be able to identify which was which?

Okoro is much better at shooting 3's (although still not good at 30%) while Stevens is a much better rebounder. In every other individual category they're almost even. Stevens has a better assist number, is a better rebounder and foul shooter, is better finishing at the rim and in the mid-range, and commits fewer turnovers. The only thing Okoro does significantly better than Stevens is 3-point shooting.

As for individual defense, JBB said after the win over Atlanta that Stevens is an "elite NBA defender".

Obviously Stevens has the advantage of having played four years in colege to one for Okoro, so it's not a fair comparison. In three years Okoro should be much better than he is now. If he isn't then we spent the #5 pick on the same skill set we got for nothing. At this point Stevens doesn't even have a minimum NBA contract; he's a two-way player.

I think the Bobby Phils and David Nwaba comparisons are accurate at this point, but both players are still rookies so we'll see where they go from here.

Okoro is stronger, quicker, faster and has a relentless motor... AND has a great feel for the game as well as a polished floor game that you rarely get from a 19 year old.

Stevens is taller and longer (6'6" w/ 7' WS), but slower and without the same motor, may have a good feel for the game (I haven't seen enough to judge). His length opens that little fade in the lane vs the guys who normally guard him.

There is no way you could put Stevens on John Wall or Olidipo for any player with a quick first step. Lamar's better comp on the team is probably Teurean Prince, way more of a SF/PF guy than a SG/SF guy. Not to bash him, I like how Lamar has played, but the athletic ability and motor separate Okoro from Stevens today, and in the future I'm expecting other aspects will as well.

 

[Alec]

All good things aside, Okoro perhaps has the worst touch on his floater I have ever seen. He shoots medicine balls!

And FWIW, I think he gets so much love from his teammates and coaches because he clearly has the biggest shlong on the team. That is clear. Doesn't even need to be good at basketball. Imagine how much respect he would get once he brings his basketball skills up to par with his shlong game.